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Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

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Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#331

Post by quantumwoke »

doctor_eval wrote: post #319
waheoo wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who does experience racism on the regular I don't have quite the same level of trouble discerning racism from biggotry. One is extremely diminishing and the other is a pretty easy to write off as ignorance, differing upbringing, and a general intolerance of difference. If you need me to spell out a clear cut example of racism it's a few comments earlier where you assumed I was white and discounted my views…

I'm sorry that you experience racism regularly. It's unacceptable. If I've said something that you consider racist then I sincerely apologise. You are right that I thought you were white. It is because you said, "don't start calling all white people racist for being nothing but white". I apologise for the assumption. You did, however, call me a moron, which doesn't really strike me as arguing in good faith. You also…

Don't waste your words, he's just one of those racist internet trolls following the same time old (if a little tired) strategies. You won't get anything fruitful from calling him out IME. I find this video series [0] useful for identifying and ignoring trolls online.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xGawJIseNY

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#332

Post by edbob »

somerandobrit wrote: post #124
dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a British person with Caribbean family background, I found the reaction to this from the internet so strange. In Britain it's normal that the different cultures here mix. Shops selling Baltic bread, next to shops selling jerk chicken, across the road from a traditional English pub. People of all colours and backgrounds frequenting all of them. From an outside perspective, people in the USA seem very pre-occupied w…

Exactly, compare the prison systems: America’s is segregated by race. You can’t mix with the other race or borrow something from them, or even sit on their table. In Britain the races mix, there’s no strict segregation, if there is any, it’s more segregated by town and county and areas.

> America’s is segregated by race.

That was not true in any of the prisons I was in in Texas. There were four that I lived in over ten years and several others that I traveled through. I've heard about it being the case in some prisons, but to present it as a universal truth is wrong. The most strictly segregated prison system I've heard of is California's, but it's based on alliance rather than race alone. The AB-aligned whites are allied with Sureños (a Hispanic group) while blacks are allied with Norteños, and fraternization is fine within the alliance but not outside of it.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#333

Post by tweetle_beetle »

apexalpha wrote: post #322
tweetle_beetle wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 90s multiculturalism gained traction as a concept in the UK. Notting Hill Carnival is pretty much the definition of what that represented - a cultural celebration of one community being opened up to and enjoyed by others. I grew up close enough to hear the bass vibrating my windows and went almost every year despite not having any links to its origin communities. Despite this, it played an important part in my…

Or am I impersonating other communities for my own enjoyment Why would it be wrong to impersonate other communities for my own benefit? If someone wants to wear a sombrero for a costume party or cook a Chinese dish because they enjoy it or have Chinese characters as a tattoo even though they aren't Chinese, I really don't see the problem.

That was in the context of attending an event primarily by and for that community. For example, a straight person dressing as a LBGT person (however you would do that) to attend a Pride event.

Your second and third are examples of the blending of cultures, which tends to be associated with multiculturalism which I would argue is generally a positive thing.

However, assuming that in your first example someone is trying to impersonate a Mexican person by wearing a sombrero, that could well be insensitive. My main point is that it does depend on intent and context, but at face value that is stereotyping, and not really very far from blackface. Hopefully we can all agree than we don't really want to go there.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#334

Post by edbob »

ChrisRR wrote: post #143
drumhead wrote: post #62

Adele, the singer, was photographed at the Nottinghill Carnival (a massive Carribean street festival over the August bank holiday in London) with her hair in Bantu Knots and wearing a bikini top in the colours of the Jamaican flag. As soon as it was on twitter the you started getting tweets from Black Americans about cultural appropriation, but this was met in turn by fierce opposition from African and Carribean post…

Exactly, Americans seem to have this weird view that no-one's culture should mix. I think in the UK the view of most people is that mixing cultures is fine as long as it's respectful I grew up in a multicultural town in the UK (also home to a lot of racism unfortunately) but we had a yearly (carribean I think) carnival with music and floats and costumes and food. People would turn out in the thousands and it didn't m…

> Exactly, Americans seem to have this weird view that no-one's culture should mix.

90%+ of the people who think that are liberals. Moderates and conservatives can mix cultures pretty freely.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#335

Post by taylodl »

finnthehuman wrote: post #309
taylodl wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was, and that's not altogether bad. A melting pot implies homogeneity and the loss of one's identity and history. A salad bowl is a pleasant mixing of everything, with each component still retaining its identity - a carrot is still a carrot, a radish is still a radish, and so forth. The irony is if I want to celebrate the zest of a radish then I'm told I'm being insensitive and appropriating the radish culture. As…

>A melting pot implies homogeneity and the loss of one's identity and history. That's the contemporary narrative, yes. In another light it's just saying "E pluribus unum." Before it became uncouth to express a spirit of national unity or civic pride, the melting pot was a way of expressing that who we are is defined by our coming together to participate in the great project we call our nation. And as part of that, we…

E pluribus unum also comes from a time when we mandated that Native American schoolchildren cut their hair and not speak their native tongue. The melting pot ended up having a very WASPy complexion in the end and harmed those who were different from that ideal.

The salad bowl allows the individual to maintain and celebrate their heritage while coming together in a spirit of national unity and civic pride. Coming to America doesn't mean you lose your heritage or your history, it means you're part of something new - you've come to a part of the world where the entire world has come together, an example of what the world could be. People living in peace where elsewhere in the world they live at war.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#336

Post by bradlys »

rramadass wrote: post #54
3np wrote: post #4

I have a strong feeling (though no data to back it up) that this holds at least as much for debate and polarisation around feminism, gender equality, trans rights and LGBT(Q+) issues.

Oh, there is a lot of data. You simply have to look at the uptick in the number of news reports from other countries dealing with the above subjects over a period of time. Now all of these are important but they are nowhere near as important as the discussion/outrage needed over poverty alleviation, social ills, economic development etc. in my country. A good example is the recent "Me too" movement. Our entire media…

> This is a great way to divert people's attention and hide actual problems.

Erm... if highlighting the abuse and rape of half the population is “hiding actual problems” then you’re part of the problem.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#337

Post by coldtea »

kgabis wrote: post #325
coldtea wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, the "problem" is that there are not many different races in Poland, so it is hard to judge how racist we are. Well, the Poles didn't bring in slaves from Africa and had them working at their planations and so on for centuries though, so there's also that...

You don't need slaves from Africa if you can enslave your own people through serfdom.

If you enslave your own people it's not racism them, so that's a different problem...

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#338

Post by coldtea »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #254
coldtea wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it really isn't. American I presume? You have full rights to use elements of our culture from this here part of Europe (not that you ever asked our permission, you use them anyway. But it's not like we care either...).

No, your presumption is wrong and I'm Scottish. Everybody has the absolute right to use elements of others' cultures – and using them in a disrespectful or exploitative manner is something that I find distasteful and think its reasonable to object to.

How many elements of other cultures do the Scots use everyday?

Do the other cultures get a say in whether the Scots use them in a "disrespectful or exploitative manner"?

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#339

Post by kgabis »

coldtea wrote: post #337
kgabis wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need slaves from Africa if you can enslave your own people through serfdom.

If you enslave your own people it's not racism them, so that's a different problem...

I’m not saying it’s racism.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#340

Post by spdionis »

mothsonasloth wrote: post #76

I used to think Britain and the USA had a dominant but equal share in exporting culture since the 50s. We had the Beatles, they had Elvis. We had Jaguars, they had Mustangs. (this is deliberately simplified example) However the internet has made everything smaller and the dominant force in tech is in the USA. Sure there are spikes in influence of Asian and other cultures (Gangam K-pop etc.) but most of it gets churne…

You're probably on point. This globalization thing is just taking a while, and the transition period is not ideal. Give it a few more generations and the relevance of smaller cultures will shrink more and more.
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