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Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

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Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#321

Post by doctor_eval »

Udik wrote: post #237
doctor_eval wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facts taken out of context can obviously be racist. > Aboriginal people just commit more crime More crime than who ? More crime than " Normal " people? Or, More crime than all other groups with the same economic opportunieis? More crime than groups with the same health issues? More crime than other people who go blind from trachoma and trichiasis despite it no longer being a public health problem in any other develop…

> Facts taken out of context can obviously be racist. A fact is a statement about reality. It can induce racism, but cannot be racist in itself. Facts are scientific, and science is not political. > More crime than who? Of non-Aboriginal people. > Or, More crime than all other groups with the same economic opportunities? Maybe or maybe not. That is beside the point. If you compare incarceration rates of Aboriginal an…

So, are you saying that the expression "Aboriginal people just commit more crimes than non-Aboriginal people" is not racist? Really?

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#322

Post by apexalpha »

tweetle_beetle wrote: post #307
drumhead wrote: post #62

Adele, the singer, was photographed at the Nottinghill Carnival (a massive Carribean street festival over the August bank holiday in London) with her hair in Bantu Knots and wearing a bikini top in the colours of the Jamaican flag. As soon as it was on twitter the you started getting tweets from Black Americans about cultural appropriation, but this was met in turn by fierce opposition from African and Carribean post…

In the 90s multiculturalism gained traction as a concept in the UK. Notting Hill Carnival is pretty much the definition of what that represented - a cultural celebration of one community being opened up to and enjoyed by others. I grew up close enough to hear the bass vibrating my windows and went almost every year despite not having any links to its origin communities. Despite this, it played an important part in my…

Or am I impersonating other communities for my own enjoyment

Why would it be wrong to impersonate other communities for my own benefit?

If someone wants to wear a sombrero for a costume party or cook a Chinese dish because they enjoy it or have Chinese characters as a tattoo even though they aren't Chinese, I really don't see the problem.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#323

Post by marcus_holmes »

soco wrote: post #212
marcus_holmes wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. The British Museum would be pretty empty if we had to give everyone their stuff back. I can see why they resist so much.

Museums constantly have borrowed items on display - borrowed as in not stolen. I'm aware this is a more common practice the more modern arts you're displaying but still. I'm sure an institution of such prestige as the British Museum could find ways to arrange temporary exhibitions of like everything (I'm tempted to make silly parallels to the handling of Brexit negotiations but I will better stop here)

Don't they usually arrange these as "swaps" though? (I'm no expert on this). I mean with other museums - I know there's the thing where rich people buy impressive shit and then lend it to museums so they don't have to worry about security.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#324

Post by akvadrako »

romanoderoma wrote: post #256
akvadrako wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But "systemic racism" is on a whole another level in US. You have a very skewed view of race relations in the US. Racist police is a popular media narrative, but it's not backed up by evidence. Cops are more likely to kill a white fugitive then a black one; black cops are just as likely to kill as white cops; many victims of police violence are white; etc...

> Racist police is a popular media narrative, but it's not backed up by evidence. What I posted earlier IS evidence. It comes from official statistics https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/ Victims were majority white (52%) but disproportionately black (32%) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites I imagined people from the US knew their country better than me, that am from Italy…

You may be misreading that paper because it doesn't back up your claim.

Blacks are more likely to have confrontations with police and also more likely to be killed by them. There are explanations for that which aren't police racism.

Blacks also have a higher fatality rate for being murdered by criminals. The ratio is many times higher than 2.8. Are you saying the criminals are racist?

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#325

Post by kgabis »

coldtea wrote: post #179
krzyk wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the "problem" is that there are not many different races in Poland, so it is hard to judge how racist we are. The most racist thing you can see here is people staring at blacks or Asians. Because it is quite unique thing to see. Just like when I was in South Korea and my wife was asked to pose in a picture of young Korean girl. Similar thing happened 50 years ago, when my mother-in-law asked a black fellow to p…

> Well, the "problem" is that there are not many different races in Poland, so it is hard to judge how racist we are. Well, the Poles didn't bring in slaves from Africa and had them working at their planations and so on for centuries though, so there's also that...

You don't need slaves from Africa if you can enslave your own people through serfdom.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#326

Post by Udik »

doctor_eval wrote: post #321
Udik wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facts taken out of context can obviously be racist. A fact is a statement about reality. It can induce racism, but cannot be racist in itself. Facts are scientific, and science is not political. > More crime than who? Of non-Aboriginal people. > Or, More crime than all other groups with the same economic opportunities? Maybe or maybe not. That is beside the point. If you compare incarceration rates of Aboriginal an…

So, are you saying that the expression "Aboriginal people just commit more crimes than non-Aboriginal people" is not racist? Really?

It's a statement about reality. It can be true or false. Racist/ not-racist is not a category of reality, it's an attribute of human intentions and actions.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#328

Post by waheoo »

doctor_eval wrote: post #319
waheoo wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who does experience racism on the regular I don't have quite the same level of trouble discerning racism from biggotry. One is extremely diminishing and the other is a pretty easy to write off as ignorance, differing upbringing, and a general intolerance of difference. If you need me to spell out a clear cut example of racism it's a few comments earlier where you assumed I was white and discounted my views…

I'm sorry that you experience racism regularly. It's unacceptable. If I've said something that you consider racist then I sincerely apologise. You are right that I thought you were white. It is because you said, "don't start calling all white people racist for being nothing but white". I apologise for the assumption. You did, however, call me a moron, which doesn't really strike me as arguing in good faith. You also…

Tell me again about the royal commission and what it has found.

https://youtu.be/fNSRz-MCM1w?t=253

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#329

Post by Udik »

DanBC wrote: post #262
Udik wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fact. How can a fact be racist?

People are saying the system is racist. Surely that means that information generated by the system is also going to be influenced by that racism? If we over-police, over-charge, over-prosecute, and over-convict one group of people then the system will generate "facts" that tell us this group of people commit more crime. Obviously we don't know if that group of people do commit more crime because we're relying on brok…

It's a good hypothesis, but don't you think it should be tested? It's not enough to vaguely propose a possible alternative explanation for the numbers, you should also check whether it's right. Missing more data, the null hypothesis is that crime rate among Aboriginals is actually higher (which in turn doesn't mean anything racist, as it can have myriad explanations that only correlate with race).

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#330

Post by scruple »

nathias wrote: post #7

I never even heard of anyone being as racist as americans are when trying not to be.

My wife (Asian-American) had a former friend (also Asian-American) tell her that I "conquered" her, essentially tricking/conning her into a long-term relationship with me (white, American), simply because of our racial backgrounds and the fact that in this persons disturbing world view there is no other way to explain Asians dating or marrying outside of "their race" than things like "yellow fever."

It is horribly racist and extremely one-sided and the perpetrators don't even seem to understand that they are engaging in true-to-life racism / racist rhetoric.

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