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Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

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Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#71

Post by fiblye »

wesleywt wrote: post #31
waheoo wrote: post #2

+1 from Australia. Our police kill more white people in custody per capita than black. I'm so over hearing about this bullshit here. The aboriginal people of Australia face real problems. The police isn't one of them. PS, keep your debates to yourselves too. Nobody cares and your media cutting Trump out of context is obvious and gross. You are literally becoming the fake news he always said you were.

-1 for Australia. Its a pretty racists country. And you forget FoxNews is a transplant of the Rupert Murdoch's empire that he established in Australia. Thier propaganda in support of Trump is obvious and gross. But you as an Australia probably grew up with this type of media surrounding you.

I don’t think trying to argue against racism while lumping an entire country of tens of millions of people together is productive.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#73

Post by jsiepkes »

varispeed wrote: post #28
gambiting wrote: post #6

The problem exists elsewhere too, because of the extremely widespread proliferation of American media - I see the Polish media taking american talking points about race, sexuality, religion, and just transplanting them wholesale into the Polish frame of reference as if they were equally important here - more often than not, they simply aren't. While racism is a problem in Poland, it's not a systematic racism like in…

I read that Poland has quite draconian drug laws. Such laws are what institutionalised racism is based on in the US - it comes from the premise that people from disadvantaged background will be more likely to be involved in drugs than other groups - this is of course not true, as person living on handouts is just as likely to take drugs as a rich person working in banking sector. It's what law enforcement is being fo…

No one is saying all these countries are without their own problems. What's being said is that their problems are different then the ones in the US. And these problems need to be discussed and addressed in a narrative and setting that suites the country and cultural they are applicable to. Not by applying some US template.

Also...Poland has draconian drug laws, draconian drug laws in the US led to institutionalised racism hence the situation in the US is similar to Poland...c'mon...seriously?

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#74

Post by gambiting »

lucideer wrote: post #30
gambiting wrote: post #6

The problem exists elsewhere too, because of the extremely widespread proliferation of American media - I see the Polish media taking american talking points about race, sexuality, religion, and just transplanting them wholesale into the Polish frame of reference as if they were equally important here - more often than not, they simply aren't. While racism is a problem in Poland, it's not a systematic racism like in…

> While racism is a problem in Poland, it's not a systematic racism I absolutely agree that transplanting US talking points wholesale into non-US frames of reference is something that's often done blindly and never really applies. But the reason for this is that the issue is nuanced and has a lot of local context that needs consideration in its own right. It shouldn't be used as an excuse to dismiss the existence of…

Well, you have conveniently omitted the next couple words from that sentence - "it's not systematic racism [like in the US]", which is what my argument was built upon, and the reason for the entire comment. Media treat is as if American problems not only exist in Poland, but also as if they have the same root causes as in the US.

Poland does of course have systematic racism problems - for instance against the Roma people, of whom there is a non-insignificant number and who are discriminated against literally everywhere. Same with immigrants, regardless of their skin colour - Ukrainians who come to work in Poland are treated very poorly and portrayed negatively just for who they are. That is systematic racism.

BUT - it's not systematic racism like in the US where (as far as I can understand) the racism is rooted in history of slave ownership, general belief that black people are inferior and deep history of segregation normalizing the process. None of those apply in Poland, yet some people behave as if they do - and that is what I object to.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#75

Post by onion2k »

HowFarFallen wrote: post #26

>I have privilege as a White person because I can do all of these things without thinking twice about it … I can go jogging (#AmaudArbery). I can relax in the comfort of my own home (#BothemSean and #AtatianaJefferson). I can ask for help after being in a car crash (#Jonathan Ferrell and #RenishaMcBride). I can have a cellphone (#StephonClark). I can leave a party to get to safety (#JordanEdwards). I can play loud mu…

But why is it so common in the BLM movement to rally behind violent criminals on the receiving end of justifiable responses?

Are you seriously trying to assert that ending someone's life is a justifiable response to them shoplifting or trespassing? No doubt these are crimes, and the people doing them should not have been doing them, but the suggestion that the inevitable outcome is someone dying is completely ridiculous.

People commit these crimes all over the world every day, but they never don't end up getting killed. That only seems to happen in the US.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#76

Post by mothsonasloth »

I used to think Britain and the USA had a dominant but equal share in exporting culture since the 50s. We had the Beatles, they had Elvis. We had Jaguars, they had Mustangs. (this is deliberately simplified example)

However the internet has made everything smaller and the dominant force in tech is in the USA. Sure there are spikes in influence of Asian and other cultures (Gangam K-pop etc.) but most of it gets churned out from celebs, artists, influencers, bloggers, writers and thinkers in the liberal east and west coasts.

Do we all want to hear what these people have to say, no, but when everyone else is wanting to follow them then it becomes easier to be influenced directly or indirectly.

The last cultural influence that stood in opposition to "Western culture", was communism, but that died on 1990 with the first McDonald's in Moscow. Sure the idea of communism isn't dead; you might see a few random people still promote it online or outside a shopping centre with a shabby looking stall, but these people are seen as weird or uncool (communism isn't cool btw).

So back to the topic, do we just want to be cool, is BLM cool, will it be forgotten, after the main proponents find another flag to wave?

Are we all just inadvertently programmed to consume and conform due to our DNA and society by those at the top, or do we risk being an outcast by going against them?

What happens when China takes the reigns as a new culture to oppose and compete with this idea of "Americanized Western Culture"?

Will we eventually have a Blade Runner like culture with a Chinese European blend in the future?

Will we all homogenise in the end? Will I see someone in the Amazonas eating KFC and wearing Adidas just like the person in the township in Johannesburg?

I don't know the answer.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#77

Post by bb101 »

meiraleal wrote: post #24
lewispollard wrote: post #14

> All the individuals listed are American, but most of the people who have shared this on my timeline are British. In trying to express their solidarity with black Britons Aren't they trying to express their solidarity with black Americans? Just because it's happening outside of your country of residence, doesn't mean your compassion and empathy ends at the border.

Maybe because it was Britain that started all this mess with slavery and human trafficking, so Britons should indeed try to repent, or some day face the wrath of the whole world.

Perhaps it's time to take a couple of minutes to watch the sources and destinations in Slate's The Atlantic Slave Trade in Two Minutes animation.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_history_of_american_s...

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#78

Post by cbzbc »

HowFarFallen wrote: post #26

>I have privilege as a White person because I can do all of these things without thinking twice about it … I can go jogging (#AmaudArbery). I can relax in the comfort of my own home (#BothemSean and #AtatianaJefferson). I can ask for help after being in a car crash (#Jonathan Ferrell and #RenishaMcBride). I can have a cellphone (#StephonClark). I can leave a party to get to safety (#JordanEdwards). I can play loud mu…

> But why is it so common in the BLM movement to rally behind violent criminals on the receiving end of justifiable responses?

Unless there is a uniform penalty for these behaviours of death without trial, these are not in fact 'justifiable responses'.

Re: Looking at the experience of black Britons through an American lens

#79

Post by DanBC »

A mostly good article.

> There has, for example, been a lot of concern about the underrepresentation of black Britons in professions like the arts and publishing. But why would you choose to go into theater or journalism—rather than law, medicine or finance—if you are a talented child of ambitious but not well off immigrants?

A really weird point. There's plenty of concern about under-representation of black people in law, and medicine, and finance.

In law there is a lot of effort spent getting more black lawyers and judges into the system, and we've recently seen the experience of Alexandra Wilson who was mistaken for a defendant at least 3 times in one day in her place of work. https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/investigation-launched-aft...

In healthcare we have NHSWRES (NHS Workforce Race Equality Standard) who are trying to increase representation in NHS exec and non-exec teams.

> In a country in which black people make up only three percent of the population, for example, six percent of junior doctors are black.

They got this information from here: https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/workforce...

If we're looking at racism we don't want to compare junior doctors with journalists. We want to compare junior doctors to consultants and senior leaders. We also want to compare the different levels of junior doctors to each other to see if the ratio of black:white doctors changes.

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/workforce...

> a higher percentage of junior doctors were from the Black, Chinese, Mixed and Other groups than senior doctors

We can see that 6.2% of junior doctors are black, but only 3.5% of consultants are black. Where did all those juniors go?

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