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My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

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Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#581

Post by unishark »

meddlepal wrote: post #481
yreg wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what situations do US employers/clients ask about criminal history? Can't you freelance or start as a contractor?

Background check process will uncover it. If you're not upfront with it early in the process it will come up in background check and usually disqualify you. Edit: background checks are standard practice for employees and contractors usually.

Why would contractors care, unless it's a high profile customer-facing thing like Uber?

I've done a lot of consulting and small contracts on the side and have never been aware of any background checking. I don't even think most have my SSN, just the info for my bank account. And I have a pretty common name. There's convicts even in my state with the same name I can find on search. Often there's not even a formal contract, just a handshake.

Also you can make money this way all over the world.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#582

Post by exclusiv »

Dayshine wrote: post #378
tomjen3 wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard disagree on that. As a programmer we have access to more than most accountants. How hard would it be for most programmers to put in a backdoor they could later claim was a bug? Criminal convictions are perhaps not the best measure of trustability.

> As a programmer we have access to more than most accountants Do we? What does the average programmer working on internal business applications, b2b services or CMSs have access to that is of any risk?

I think so. Many sites have some sort of sensitive user data that could be exploited. If you work in ecommerce, you likely have access to the payment gateway as well.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#583

Post by klyrs »

tssva wrote: post #430
jorblumesea wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Americans talk about "freedom" but their definition is largely narrow and specific to political issues they feel strongly about. The same people who talk about "small government" simultaneously use the federal government to bludgeon states into submissions on issues such as legalized marijuana. It's usually something that's used to justify a specific political position and not an overall sentiment of allowing ac…

There is no such thing as actual freedom. You exercising your "freedom" almost always means imposing upon someone else's. In your example wouldn't someone having to provide a service to a LGBTQ person even though it is against their religious beliefs be a violation of their freedom of religion just as much as refusing to provide them service would be a violation of the LGBTQ person's freedom? "Freedom" is used a lot…

In the same way that federal money can't be spent on abortions because of "religious freedom" but we still go to war with taxes collected from Quakers, we had to fight for decades over the "definition of marriage" because a certain religion's liberties are more equal than others.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#584

Post by shadowprofile77 »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #518
yreg wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what situations do US employers/clients ask about criminal history? Can't you freelance or start as a contractor?

When I was in consulting, it was part of our regular contact language that we had verified backgrounds and that we wouldn't place a felon on site with a client. A surprising number of clients even outside banking, finance, government, etc made a point of enforcing this language, even conducting their own background checks. Freelancing was the approach I saw some people do successfully, but there were lots of projects…

This is just puritanical, judgemental idiocy at its most pointlessly discriminatory. Even for felony offenses it often veers into the same territory but flatly refusing to hire people for fucking misdemeanors with absolutely no relevance to most of the work involved? What a closed, almost hatefully punitive mentality some employers have. I can't put myself into another's shoes or context of needs, but if I ran a firm that subcontracted employees to other companies, who then refused to accept them for some half-assed DUI from years back, I hope I'd have the decency to fire that client instead.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#585

Post by rorykoehler »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #287
rorykoehler wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theft, fraud and violence are applicable for all jobs surely.

Surely not, if by "applicable" you mean to suggest that employers would never want to hire such a person for any job. Should a person convicted of theft, who's served their time, paid the fine, made the victims whole, and learned not to steal, be discarded from consideration as a useful member of society? In case it's not clear, I think they should have the same rights as any other human being. No one seriously advoc…

If that is the case their record should be wiped at the end of their sentence. What's the point of a record if it can't be used to warn people of your past?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#586

Post by rorykoehler »

larrywright wrote: post #401
tomjen3 wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you beat a man up such that he suffers lifelong injuries, it seems only fair to me that your punishment should also be life long. I don't think you should necessarily spend all that time in prison, but not having access to trusted jobs is not comparable to being in pain every day for the rest of your life. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind if more punishments were metered out in the form of community service.

Your attitude towards someone convicted of a criminal act isn’t uncommon, but it’s short-sighted. If the judicial system determines that the appropriate punishment for a crime is X years, then at the end of that time they should be given a chance at a fresh start. There are limits, of course, perhaps you don’t want to give them a security clearance, or a job that requires carrying a gun. Someone convicted of molestin…

Often the judicial system is flat out wrong. In Ireland the prisons are so full everyone gets a slap on the wrist and a suspended sentence for even public endangerment crimes.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#587

Post by deathgrips »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #491
deathgrips wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and learned not to steal That's the issue at hand. Serving a prison sentence doesn't mean that you have learned not to steal. It's difficult for the company to verify that you have "learned your lesson".

What will satisfy you then? Should people who come out from prison for stealing sit around jobless since nobody trusts them? That's bound to get them back into prison.

I'm not responsible for strangers. If I'm a hiring manager, I'm responsible for my company and the safety of my employees. I owe nothing to a stranger. Take your problem to someone else.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#588

Post by ninjanomnom »

rorykoehler wrote: post #586
larrywright wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your attitude towards someone convicted of a criminal act isn’t uncommon, but it’s short-sighted. If the judicial system determines that the appropriate punishment for a crime is X years, then at the end of that time they should be given a chance at a fresh start. There are limits, of course, perhaps you don’t want to give them a security clearance, or a job that requires carrying a gun. Someone convicted of molestin…

Often the judicial system is flat out wrong. In Ireland the prisons are so full everyone gets a slap on the wrist and a suspended sentence for even public endangerment crimes.

Where do the occupants of the full prisons come from then? Are the prisons full of life sentence prisoners from back when they weren't full?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#589

Post by rendall »

nhumrich wrote: post #565
Aeolun wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? They may take a stricter stance, but I just fail to see how anything but extortion or treason really applies to working in security. Hell, even if you committed a murder that doesn’t make you any more likely to steal company secrets.

Statistically, it does.

Statistically, it does? You have a citation, then. Would you share it, please?
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