My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison • Hacker News Board

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#371

Post by Igelau » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 7:50 PM UTC

alexashka wrote: post #355

mrlala wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not that hard to be a member of free society instead of prison society - don't break the law, repeatedly. Wow. It's THAT SIMPLE! Would you like to report this to the media or should I? Most "criminals" are people who are from severely disadvantaged socioeconomic and/or family backgrounds. Gee, what a coincidence. You mean the people who grew up without an opportunity in the world resort to crime to try to stay…

> You mean the people who grew up without an opportunity in the world resort to crime to try to stay afloat? What opportunities do people who end up criminals lack that immigrants or refugees have? Let's narrow it down to countries without slavery in their past to simplify matters. > What makes you think they DO NOT want to be a productive member of society given the proper opportunity? I didn't make the claim that t…

If this account is really going to invoke the celestial teapot as a defense against accepting that there are ex-cons who want to have a normal life, its handlers should shut it down and retrain the algorithm.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#372

Post by jph » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 7:52 PM UTC

anon55555 wrote: post #69

Hey, posting anonymously here since this hits close to home; as I'm also a felon. I learned to program _after_ all my legal troubles started, and my sentence wasn't _nearly_ as long as this (6 months, drug crime). I 100% honestly feel like tech saved my life. My first job immediately gave me hope that I'm not defined by my past. Went from working in a factory making $7/hr (about 10 yrs ago), to now grossing well over…

Congratulations! I'm with a YC company that helps formerly-incarcerated people with jobs, and would love to talk with you about what you're doing. Like you, we believe that coding and tech can be a potential way to help rentry. Work email is joel@70millionjobs.com.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#373

Post by tomjen3 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 7:52 PM UTC

lostcolony wrote: post #369

rorykoehler wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theft, fraud and violence are applicable for all jobs surely.

I'm super curious - do you feel that all those crimes you mentioned should have life sentences? 'cause I mean...if not, what was the point of the jail term? Depending on perspective, it might be rehabilitative, or it might be punitive, but either way, time served should equate to a clear record, no? If not, you're either saying they need further punishment, or you don't believe that they've been rehabilitated, in whi…

If you beat a man up such that he suffers lifelong injuries, it seems only fair to me that your punishment should also be life long.

I don't think you should necessarily spend all that time in prison, but not having access to trusted jobs is not comparable to being in pain every day for the rest of your life.

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind if more punishments were metered out in the form of community service.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#374

Post by kyleee » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

staticassertion wrote: post #241

kyleee wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you prefer to be murdered or to recieve a racist remark directed towards you?

Do you think this question is relevant or clever? I would rather a racist remark me directed towards me. I hope that satisfies whatever you're after.

just trying to suss out if you thought there are levels of severity of various crimes / negative behaviors, which I was unsure of based on earlier comments.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#375

Post by base698 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 7:55 PM UTC

didibus wrote: post #368

Anyone has the right to feel uneasy by the thought of a an ex-con working with them and all that. But you need to ask yourself what the alternatives are? I remember seeing some general statistics, most crime are committed by men of a certain age range, and rarely after 30 do people commit more crimes. Some of it can be explained by hormones and life pressures. Now there's exceptions, but you need to trust the prison…

I had a roommate just after college that was a civil engineer and had a decent job. Upon getting to know him and his other friends I found out he'd done time for robbery and trafficking.

He had come from a really poor back lground. His first year in college he saw all these kids with BMWs with rich parents. He decided he wanted one too so he made it happen.

Being given a second chance worked for him.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#376

Post by cbuchanan » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 7:55 PM UTC

Everyone deserves a chance to be better. I hope more people convicted of crimes are able to get the opportunity to build a better life for themselves. And I hope more employers are inclined to give those opportunities.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#377

Post by formerly_proven » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 7:56 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #344

noobermin wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans have been completely conditioned into accepting all sorts of trouble while maintaining the idea of freedom in contradiction to that.

Being free to background check someone you're going to work with, work for, or hire is in fact an entirely correct aspect of being free broadly. The US position on that is correct, not contradictory. Restriction on action which does not involve using violence against others is restricting freedom in any proper liberal model of the word. That goes for everything from prostitution to drug use, and it absolutely include…

ITT corporations are people and have feelings, too.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#378

Post by Dayshine » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 7:56 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #370

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #130

In Germany I was asked to provide my criminal record while working at a payment processing startup that had to obtain certain certificates. They were probably looking for crimes of a fiscal nature however, which is understandable. Second chances are second chances but security is mostly about trust. Another job at a startup in Germany that worked in less tightly controlled spaces has never asked me to produce my crim…

Hard disagree on that. As a programmer we have access to more than most accountants. How hard would it be for most programmers to put in a backdoor they could later claim was a bug? Criminal convictions are perhaps not the best measure of trustability.

> As a programmer we have access to more than most accountants

Do we? What does the average programmer working on internal business applications, b2b services or CMSs have access to that is of any risk?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#379

Post by tomjen3 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 7:57 PM UTC

thelean12 wrote: post #182

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's break this down. Someone commits murder, and gets sent to prison for 13 years. They are out now. How do we deal with them? 1. If everyone says that they will no longer want to work with such a person, especially rich people, who can enforce that want, that person will end up working with poor people. The rich people are making a classist argument. 2. Worse, if that person, cannot even get bad jobs, they will be…

After reading everyone's responses and responding myself, I've realized that I'm really caught up on the murder aspect. I think my revised opinion is that if you intentionally murder someone without a damn good reason, you should spend life in prison. This can include second degree murder, which is often not life in prison in the US (And also happens to line up with the OP scenario).

Suppose the person didn't commit murder, but had intentionally and violently raped a ten year old?

We can't make the punishment the same, or he would just murder her, yet I don't think such a person should every be let out.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#380

Post by vel0city » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 7:58 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #264

koiz wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, background checks are often just part of the process. There's an entire industry built around providing the service.

In Texas, if you pull a background check on someone you're required to provide a copy to them which I always felt was a good minimal standard - at least then you know that someone pulled the check and what they found.

That's interesting because I've filed many things in Texas related to background checks in Texas and have never received a response. I'll edit this comment with more research about this, as this is personally a very interesting topic.

EDIT 1: A quick look shows a guidebook for employers which references this, but the link to the Texas state code talks about in-home employees. https://www.twc.texas.gov/news/efte/references_background_ch... I'm still unsure about the law related to other kinds of employees.