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My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

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Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#321
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you comfortable being judged on the worst thing you've ever done in your life? Sure, a violent crime is worse than some bone-headed mistake made at a college party, or whatever your worst moment is. But how much have you grown up since then? Would you do it again? Or are you older and wiser? Well, they are probably older and wiser, too.

I'd be willing to be that the worst thing most people have done isn't murder or manslaughter. You don't have to be "older and wiser" to know that you aren't supposed to murder people.

> *You don't have to be "older and wiser" to know that you aren't supposed to murder people.

I mean, I'm not sure how relevant "knowing" anything is, but age is an incredibly strong predictor of criminality. Gender is another one. The majority of crime, and the overwhelming majority violent crime, is committed by young men. One factor that likely contributes to this reliable statistical phenomenon is that the prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain responsible for decision-making, self-control, emotional self-regulation, and other aspects of executive function, doesn't fully develop until around 25 years of age. For one example of how executive function relates to criminal behavior, look into the connection between ADHD (a disorder linked to deficiencies in the prefrontal cortex) and crime.

I agree that most people haven't killed anyone, but I also don't think that there's any reason for any of us to assume that 'we' would have behaved any differently when placed in the circumstances of those who have.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans have been completely conditioned into accepting all sorts of trouble while maintaining the idea of freedom in contradiction to that.

A lot of Americans don't feel like "bad" people are deserving of freedoms. Definitions for "bad" vary from person to person, which is why this kind of thing is so pervasive. Also some people can be forgiven while other's can't. A group of people will scream that rapists should get the death penalty, but then go on to elect an admitted rapist to represent them. In short, we Americans are really good at being hypocriti…

trump has never admitted to being a rapist. delete your comment for spreading lies.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#323
If you're in Seattle, consider supporting Unloop, https://www.un-loop.org/, with donations of time or money. [EDIT to add detail:] They help people re-entering society establish tech skills and find work.

I've been volunteering with Unloop for a few months, as both a guest speaker and 1:1 coach. I feel myself becoming less cynical about tech with every interaction.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#324
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What crimes are applicable to software engineers, then? I don't think there are any laws punishing you from writing bad code, nor are there laws addressing data theft or security misconfigurations. GDPR applies against companies and not individual people, as far as I can tell. Would the only valid crimes be related to computer hacking?

>Would the only valid crimes be related to computer hacking? Or willingly install Windows Server facing the internet directly, that would be the other one ;)

"Directly facing the internet" is a legitimate Windows Server configuration scenario for some use cases.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#325
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

leaving former criminals with little chance at success It's worth noting that it also leaves their children a smaller chance at success as well[0], and then the cycle continues. When you add this to the fact that Black male offenders received sentences on average 19.1 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders [1], this adds up to one aspect of systemic racism in America. 0 - https://projects.sfchron…

It’s funny watching people come up with all these complicated epicycle-ridden theories for why success is heritable, when the true answer is very obvious - most behaviors related to success are highly genetically heritable. This is the incontrovertible conclusion one draws when they critically observe the results of highly controlled and conditioned twin/sibling studies (on incarceration rate, among other things). Of…

Tell us more. How are people created and how amazing were your bootstraps. Just found them laying around the cavern where you exited Zeus’ skull did you?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#326
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Would the only valid crimes be related to computer hacking? Or willingly install Windows Server facing the internet directly, that would be the other one ;)

"Directly facing the internet" is a legitimate Windows Server configuration scenario for some use cases.

Yes a Honeypot...but i thinks that's it.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#327

I was convicted for drugs and firearms in Norway. The only time it has ever come up during my many years as a programmer, was when a consulting company I worked for had the police IT service as a candidate for my next project. Since it was for the police, a background check would be required. I politely told my department head that I would not pass that, and a short summary of my case. At that time I had worked for a…

The U.S. is just so awful.

My brother did jail time for federal larceny, he makes six figures in the US. In fact over half my family have criminal records, and they're mostly employed, including active drug dealers.

It matters to some degree for sure but it's really overblown.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that crimes are usually done against other people. I as a citizen can usually defend myself against wrongdoing by other people, but I can only defend myself against state wrongdoing in the state's courts, with the state's rules. Being imbalanced one way is not as equally harmful as being imbalanced the other way.

Giving petty criminals a chance to reform is important since most petty crime is driven by factors other than inherent criminality of the individual but it should not be possible to just keep racking up petty offenses to the detriment of everyone who's victimized by them.

Yes, but the argument of "detriment to everyone" is only used to further lengthen sentences, but never address any of the inputs that lead to such crime. And that's because of the draconian character of the US concerning law and punishment.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#329
I don't have a record, but, through the extracurricular volunteer work I've done for the last 40 years, I've had a lot of interaction with people who have spent some quality time, getting free room and board; from Minimum Security Federal pens, to supermax and 23-hour solitary.

One thing that I can tell you, is that there's no way to apply "one size fits all" templates to them all. Some will shine like you wouldn't believe, if given the chance, and some would, at best, be crappy employees. I doubt there would be a problem with workplace violence, with most, but it's entirely possible that you could end up with a "dud."

In short, each case needs to be handled on an individual basis, with careful, extensive human interaction. Lots of "tell me a story" interviews. Coding tests are likely to be useless.

Since that kind of employee search seems to be a thing of the past, in our industry, it can be tough for these folks to get in the door. This woman went to bat for her friend. There's not a whole lot of folks willing to do that.

BTW: The US is horrible for that kind of thing. Even a small misdemeanor can be a scarlet letter for life. I knew a guy that was busted in [an Ivy-League] college for pot (a misdemeanor), and pursued a career in banking. Even a quarter-century later, that bust followed him, and stunted his chances (he was real good).

One of the most intelligent people I ever met (and I have met a lot of really smart people) was a violent felon that went away at 17, and was profoundly twisted by the experience. He was never able to readjust properly. That marvelous intellect was never able to benefit us.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#330
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could assume hacking, fraud, corporate espionage, etc. along with info relevant to the software (i.e. if you make banking software I'd assume fiscal crime would be at least somewhat relevant)

Hacking would probably be a plus for a software enginer. They know how to debug systems. Espionage, theft, and violent crimes... That's a different situation (I don't want someone coming after me after I liter their PR with comments)

Sure, and embezzlement might be a plus for a very specific finance job, namely, searching for evidence that embezzlement has happened.

Point is that it's relevant under those circumstances, and fair play for an employer search. Drunken and disorderly is not.

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