"everyone who gets out needs a job" - I totally agree. So why a job in tech, or specifically, a software engineering job, and not a job in a different field?
My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison
281–290 of 670 posts
Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
>A criminal record in the US is a curse for life The US system probably is overly harsh -- in Ireland it's probaby overly lenient and the pendulum affect is that we've criminals being called in to court with literally hundreds of prior convictions and then they're let off with suspended sentences and then go straight back to what they were doing. Equally frustrating -- to see the guilty just walk off and laugh as it…
The difference is that crimes are usually done against other people. I as a citizen can usually defend myself against wrongdoing by other people, but I can only defend myself against state wrongdoing in the state's courts, with the state's rules. Being imbalanced one way is not as equally harmful as being imbalanced the other way.
Giving petty criminals a chance to reform is important since most petty crime is driven by factors other than inherent criminality of the individual but it should not be possible to just keep racking up petty offenses to the detriment of everyone who's victimized by them.
Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think those questions are distracting to my very simple point: I don't want to work with a person who has murdered someone without a damn good reason (self-defense). I truly can't believe that HN thinks this is some offensive opinion.
So what should happen to that person, exactly? Should they be in prison forever? Should they be released but not allowed to work? Should they only be allowed to work by themselves? I understand your reluctance, but the alternatives to "let the released felon work" are not great.
Queue the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode where Wesley breaks a greenhouse window and all crimes are punished by immediate lethal injection.
Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
It gets very philosophical fast. Prison is for punishment, rehabilitation, protection of society and is there to serve as a deterrent. Over emphasis on the need to punish seems to cause a lot of long term harm.
I don't dispute that, but I'm genuinely not sure how that fits in with my comment. Could you clarify?
Too obtuse, sorry.
US prisons are heavy on the punishment aspect of imprisonment relative to the system where I am, NZ.
If you emphasis punishment rather than rehabilitation, you are setting the scene for discrimination post release. It’s a sort of chicken and egg situation.
I appreciate the irony in claiming this in a thread on someone’s hard earned achievement post release.
Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison
#285We need more of this. A criminal record in the US is a curse for life, leaving former criminals with little chance at success and little to live for. People without much to live for are dangerous. We should help our former criminals rather than condemn them for life--it benefits us all.
leaving former criminals with little chance at success It's worth noting that it also leaves their children a smaller chance at success as well[0], and then the cycle continues. When you add this to the fact that Black male offenders received sentences on average 19.1 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders [1], this adds up to one aspect of systemic racism in America. 0 - https://projects.sfchron…
It's important to note that [1] seems to refer to federal sentencing, and almost all criminal law in the U.S. is state law. [1] is a small subset of what's going on, and it can't be used to generalize.
Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison
#286I was convicted for drugs and firearms in Norway. The only time it has ever come up during my many years as a programmer, was when a consulting company I worked for had the police IT service as a candidate for my next project. Since it was for the police, a background check would be required. I politely told my department head that I would not pass that, and a short summary of my case. At that time I had worked for a…
In the USA, background checks are often just part of the process. There's an entire industry built around providing the service.
Americans have been completely conditioned into accepting all sorts of trouble while maintaining the idea of freedom in contradiction to that.
Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison
#287In Germany I was asked to provide my criminal record while working at a payment processing startup that had to obtain certain certificates. They were probably looking for crimes of a fiscal nature however, which is understandable. Second chances are second chances but security is mostly about trust. Another job at a startup in Germany that worked in less tightly controlled spaces has never asked me to produce my crim…
Theft, fraud and violence are applicable for all jobs surely.
Surely not, if by "applicable" you mean to suggest that employers would never want to hire such a person for any job.
Should a person convicted of theft, who's served their time, paid the fine, made the victims whole, and learned not to steal, be discarded from consideration as a useful member of society? In case it's not clear, I think they should have the same rights as any other human being.
No one seriously advocates the death penalty or life imprisonment for petty crimes. But depending on the ability of a society to forget (which the information age is rapidly making very difficult) and the ability of a society to forgive (which the climate of fear is also making difficult), a conviction in your record can ruin a life.
Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let's break this down. Someone commits murder, and gets sent to prison for 13 years. They are out now. How do we deal with them? 1. If everyone says that they will no longer want to work with such a person, especially rich people, who can enforce that want, that person will end up working with poor people. The rich people are making a classist argument. 2. Worse, if that person, cannot even get bad jobs, they will be…
After reading everyone's responses and responding myself, I've realized that I'm really caught up on the murder aspect. I think my revised opinion is that if you intentionally murder someone without a damn good reason, you should spend life in prison. This can include second degree murder, which is often not life in prison in the US (And also happens to line up with the OP scenario).
Happy that someone changed their mind. You asked a very good question. I don't think there are any easy answers to it. Crime hurts people and creates lots of strong emotions, so our instincts on what is best for society regarding crime are not very reliable.
A lot of conversation needs to happen on this, and we need to constantly reevaluate our positions.
Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've found a mix with background checks in the U.S; a lot of rental landlords want background checks for the obvious reasons (e.g. housing a convicted rapist with a young woman), employers can go either way, and in my experience it has tended to be reasonable (but I've always worked as a professional, and for people I know through colleagues or acquaintances). A background check is, in my experience, unusal for rente…
The demands for background checks tends to be inversely proportional to the ability of the employee/applicant to do criminal or civil harm. You'll need a clean criminal record to work a random retail job but could have numerous convictions and be a software developer. A crummy rental will require it but fancy executive rental will not. I know some of this has historical/data underpinnings on experience, but fear most…
Do you have evidence this is true? Also software developers can cause loads of damage I think.
Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
First, you did not point out the specific page where it says that “nearly all” violent offenders will commit another violent crime. This is a 42 page report. Second, I could not find any statistic in that report that comes even remotely close to describing that “most” violent offenders will commit another violent crime. Some states have recidivism rates approaching 50% (for ALL offenders, violent and nonviolent) but…
sorry, it's a typo the "nearly have" was supposed to be " nearly half." I don't believe even with the typo someone would likely see "nearly all." If you want a more summarized article you can find one here https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/recidivism-am... I originally posted the pew one as I feel the chance of biased against offenders is lower from their research, but this article does a better job of s…
It would be interesting to see what the recidivism data on longer sentences is. There is a big difference between someone that served a 90 day sentence for something, then goes and commits a serious crime, and someone that serves 13 years for something. There is a much more significant lesson in the 13 years. Also, crime rates decrease among populations as they age. The mere fact that people who serve longer sentences are older when they get out would have a further push down on crime rates among that population.