My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison • Hacker News Board

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#141

Post by sethammons » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

UncleOxidant wrote: post #21

thelean12 wrote: post #14

There are a lot of people saying they're in favor of this type of thing. And for non-violent offenses I'd probably also be on board. But this person committed a "serious, violent crime" that sent them to prison for 13 years. Are you comfortable sitting next to someone who is capable of a "serious, violent crime"? Are there certain crimes that cross the line for you? Would you expect your employer to inform you of the…

> Are you comfortable sitting next to someone who is capable of a "serious, violent crime"? I'd guess pretty much everyone you sit next to currently is capable of committing a serious, violent crime under the right (wrong) circumstances.

I agree. Given some circumstance or set of them, the overwhelming vast majority of people are capable of extreme violence.

What is scary is those who enjoy violence and causing harm. My grandma worked in the next cube over from a guy for years. "Nicest guy ever." He spent his weekends cutting people into parts and mailing the the parts around.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#142

Post by sevenf0ur » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

tnorthcutt wrote: post #116

haunter wrote: post #23

>13 years for a serious, violent crime That can be a manslaughter or second/first degree murder in some states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_punishments_for_murder...

What's your point? Do you feel that after serving a sentence for such a crime, the perpetrator should not have a chance at a "normal" life? Should they live the rest of their days continually punished by society for what they did? If so, should we instead increase the length of the sentence for such a crime? To how long?

We had someone who worked at my company that was convicted for second degree manslaughter for bludgeoning someone to death with a hammer. He was always chill around me but I think companies should have the right to decide whether or not they want to hire people with a record like that.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#143

Post by karpierz » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

hash872 wrote: post #109

Using the logic of some people in this thread, the day after a convinced child molester gets out of prison, he should be able to start working at a day care. Why not? He served his time- you don't want to punish him indefinitely, right? Also a convicted fraudster can start working again immediately in a bank, or as a financial advisor for your parents- after all, he served his time, right? And a convicted Mafioso or…

I don't think that someone who commits homicide should be allowed into a job that enables the employee to be violent, like policing. The same way I don't think a pedophile should work at a day care, and someone convicted of insider trading shouldn't be working at an investment firm.

But that doesn't mean they should be excluded from professions that don't put them in an escalated position to recommit.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#144

Post by staticassertion » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

sebmellen wrote: post #62

nendroid wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say this, but most prison time is done for extreme crime that everyone agrees with. In addition this, prison time is usually reserved for not just crimes we agree with but crimes we all agree are extreme. Case in point for this specific case it was violent crime, which I'm sure we can all agree is way worse than a racist tweet.

I would hope that all agree a violent crime is worse than a racist tweet. However, there is a sentiment of sympathy afforded to murderers (that they're somehow deserving of rehabilitation) which is not always extended to those who have tweeted racist things. Perhaps this comes because a murder can be seen as a sad result of circumstances. Perhaps the criminal only had to murder because they had a bad upbringing and n…

I'm perfectly willing to:

a) Understand violent criminals have made amends and are rehabilitated

b) Believe that people who were once racist are no longer racist

Both issues are, to me, a 'sad result of circumstances'. So all of that seems fine.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#145

Post by hash872 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

intortus wrote: post #124

hash872 wrote: post #109

Using the logic of some people in this thread, the day after a convinced child molester gets out of prison, he should be able to start working at a day care. Why not? He served his time- you don't want to punish him indefinitely, right? Also a convicted fraudster can start working again immediately in a bank, or as a financial advisor for your parents- after all, he served his time, right? And a convicted Mafioso or…

Much of crime is driven by poverty. If the consequence of poverty-driven crime is more poverty, then this negative feedback loop turns society into an incarceral state. This is the US in a nutshell.

Being a pedophile is driven by poverty?

Anyways, most social science research has not found a poverty-crime correlation. Would you mind answering some of my specific examples, rather than trafficking in generalities? Should a daycare hire a convicted pedophile? Should a bank hire a fraudster? Law enforcement, an ex-gang member?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#146

Post by celdon25 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:58 PM UTC

staticassertion wrote: post #137

celdon25 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What percentage of the population do you estimate is made up of these racists?

I don't know? I don't understand what you're getting at.

Many these days have got on a bandwagon of calling people out as racists if they don't fall in line with the Democrat party platform or support the censorship agenda of big tech. As that diminishes the real problem of racism would you be willing to commit to not hiring anyone contributing to that problem as well? (Obviously this is rhetorical)

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#147

Post by downandout » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 4:59 PM UTC

Meph504 wrote: post #121

downandout wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People change, especially after being punished for the mistake they made for 13 years. Chances are she would be less likely to engage in violence than the people you currently sit next to, because she has a personal understanding of the harsh punishment it would involve. Edit: The downvotes that this comment is currently receiving actually illustrate the problems outlined in this thread. If you disagree with the idea…

Recidivism statistics would disagree with this statement, nearly have of all violent offenders when released will commit another violent crime. https://www.michigan.gov/documents/corrections/Pew_Report_St...

First, you did not point out the specific page where it says that “nearly all” violent offenders will commit another violent crime. This is a 42 page report. Second, I could not find any statistic in that report that comes even remotely close to describing that “most” violent offenders will commit another violent crime. Some states have recidivism rates approaching 50% (for ALL offenders, violent and nonviolent) but those numbers include technical parole violations and new non-violent crime.

Please indicate the page where the data supports your statement.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#148

Post by dfxm12 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

caseyscottmckay wrote: post #8

We need more of this. A criminal record in the US is a curse for life, leaving former criminals with little chance at success and little to live for. People without much to live for are dangerous. We should help our former criminals rather than condemn them for life--it benefits us all.

leaving former criminals with little chance at success

It's worth noting that it also leaves their children a smaller chance at success as well[0], and then the cycle continues. When you add this to the fact that Black male offenders received sentences on average 19.1 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders [1], this adds up to one aspect of systemic racism in America.

0 - https://projects.sfchronicle.com/2016/captive-lives/

1 - https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/demographic-d...

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#149

Post by Kalium » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

caseyscottmckay wrote: post #8

We need more of this. A criminal record in the US is a curse for life, leaving former criminals with little chance at success and little to live for. People without much to live for are dangerous. We should help our former criminals rather than condemn them for life--it benefits us all.

Once upon a time, an employer of mine was happy to work with people who had criminal records. Provided they were honest and willing to discuss the matter.

It became a problem when we hired someone with a record of fraud... who had not disclosed it. And who would have had access to credit card info. He was promptly fired.

We were willing to work with him, and said as much. He wasn't willing to take the risk. So he took a bigger one, and lost.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#150

Post by TLightful » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #108

staticassertion wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather hire a criminal (depending on the crime, obviously) than, say, a racist, especially given how many laws I disagree with.

There's a problem though: - The standard of proof in criminal law is very high. There are very specific definitions of most criminal acts and these must be proven "beyond reasonable doubt" - The definition of "racist tweet" on the other hand is as fuzzy as it can be. Usually it drills down to "someone whom I don't like said something that I have interpreted in the way I don't like" If we think that racist tweets shou…

"Usually it drills down to "someone whom I don't like said something that I have interpreted in the way I don't like""

"Usually" ...

LOL ...