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The Social Dilemma

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411–420 of 421 posts

Re: The Social Dilemma

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would reduce it all to atoms.

I’m just trying to take the ideas in this thread seriously. If we are going to argue that it’s bad to try to influence people’s behavior, we ought to think through what that means when applied to entities other than Facebook. That will help us figure out if we really mean what we are saying. Is it an actual value we hold, or only a rhetorical point when we are taking about a few tech companies?

"Influence" is a big word.

Context and details matter. As does intent. Saying that all discussion is really "influencing", isn't useful, imho.

In the context of our discussion about Facebook, IMHO these are the defining qualities specific to Facebook:

1. Massive, global scale and scope - behavior via Facebook can influence culture, politics, etc.

2. An algorithm driving the bus, as opposed to people (albeit people choose what the algorithm does or doesn't do).

3. Facebook's primary motivation in influencing is to profit via increased user engagement - they currently have no financial incentive to care about the particular nature of said engagement.

4. Facebook's poor track record when it comes to acknowledging critique or concerns around the power its platform has, and Facebook's denial that it should exercise a degree of responsiblity (or be legally held accountable in some way) for said power.

5. The somewhat covert nature of how Facebook functions; as this documentary shows, while how Facebook functions may have been "in the open", it's not something most non-tech folk are aware of, and it's not something Facebook has been, in good faith, forthright and transparent about.

6. The particular power and impact of computers/the internet as a medium of mass communication, which we are still learning about.

6.5 As a subsection of item 6, the viral nature of the internet/social media which means stuff spreads very quickly, unlike other modes or media of human communication.

So sure, a parent "influences" their child, a teacher influences a student, newspapers influence people, and so do Coca-Cola commercials, but not the same way that Facebook has "influence", which I've attempted to describe above.

Re: The Social Dilemma

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is fine sending a comment expressing opinion. There are so many qualitatives differences: - This is human to human communication, not an optimised algorithm. - People here are not sending you 10 comments and looking at the one which you engaged the most time, because they don't have the metrics. Social media knows how many seconds you looked at a post and classify it with AI, they can make a profile of your cur…

In a conversation, you subconsciously build a model of the mind of person you are talking to, and your words are tuned to fill the gap between what they know and are thinking and the ideas you are trying to express. If I think back through my life, the communication that has affected me most as been from humans in face-to-face conversations, not on websites. But I could be bad at objectively evaluating this. I think…

Well Facebooks content is human.

Also, what about books? Ideas? Film.

IMHO people are too complicated, and situations too situation specific to be able to generalize about how someone is influenced.

Sometimes people ignore the advice of those close to them, sometimes they don't, and, it probably depends on the subject being discussed, the particular relationship between the people, the state of mind of the person in question, and so on.

Re: The Social Dilemma

#413
post #185

Social Media platforms are like being famous without any of the good parts. You just get all the shitty parts of living your life with 1000 fake friends(I mean fans) like a hero complex, or an influence complex, or hyper sensitivity to judgement, or addiction to others opinions, or addiction, or suicide, or an inability to communicate with people different than you, or an inability to determine fact from scam, or a p…

Although few people will read this follow up comment.

Since 2008-2009 and the mainstreaming of social media, the US has seen a 40% increase in suicide rate for 15-24 year old's.

The "good" does not out way the bad.

Re: The Social Dilemma

#414
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either Apple, Microsoft, nor Amazon were mentioned. All of which collect data. The difference being neither run a social network. Well, LinkedIn is one, I suppose.

Does Google run a social network? There was plus, but that's gone. Youtube is kind of a social network I guess? But I don't know anyone that uses it as anything other than a one way means of communication.

[deleted]

Re: The Social Dilemma

#415

I really like this documentary/film, but if I’m being honest, it does leave a taste of typical SV virtue signaling in my mouth. The website explicitly states that their site allows cookies "set through our site by our advertising partners and may be used to build a profile of your interests and show you relevant ads on other sites." Since visiting I received two ads for “Moment” in instagram, and one for Asana on You…

And the top of the website has a wiggling bell notification icon, so you can sign up for some dopamine fixes.

Re: The Social Dilemma

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would mean your parents and you are not on very familiar terms. Perhaps that is the situation for you, but it is by no means generalisable. I live pretty well without any personal social media. I call friends and family often, while being mindful of their time. Voice calls are wonderful.

I no longer use anything with posts and likes and a feed, but direct and small-group messaging are pretty important among my peers. May I ask what generation are these people with whom you use only voice (and maybe snail mail)?

This site has posts and likes and a feed.

Re: The Social Dilemma

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never occurred to me until now that Hacker News is free and this statement could be applied here as well, though I'm not exactly sure in what way.

Of course. Remember that Dropbox started here [0]. It inspires lots of people to apply to YC. YC founders participate in these forums. It raises everyone's value in general. HN members often are the early adopters on many YC products, giving important feedback (for free) to these companies. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863

Oh, how funny is it, that the top comment would be still the top comment today.

Re: The Social Dilemma

#419
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offence, but you are arguing on HN, Reddit, Chan boards, /. now. Where is the difference? I did similarly but keep getting sucked into these communities simply because I'm alone in my head a lot of the time.

As mentioned below hacker news is a niche website, the dialogue here is much more intelligent than on Facebook. For now I don't see talking on hacker news as stressful, but I definitely will stop using this site if it becomes so.

Hacker News is, and has been for years, extremely main-stream. Everyone who ever gets into coding ends up here to voice their biased opinions.

Re: The Social Dilemma

#420
post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ads are definitely a large part of the problem, but they are not the only problem. Ads are what turn us from customers into cattle, yes, but I think that online services could be almost as bad if we paid for them. Indeed, micropayments might actually result in many of the same issues as ads do: in a world with micropayments for each page load, publishers would still want to increase engagement, because that would dir…

Ads don't turn people into cattle. That is a huge exaggeration, or at least, you should only speak for yourself. The sort of ads that make the big bucks for companies like Google and even Facebook are niche or local firms buying very simple ads that let people know they exist. Brand advertising on publisher websites is not the biggest source of value, and these tech firms started out by trying to get rid of it entire…

Can’t believe this didn’t get downvoted more. Is this a joke?

Watch the film. The speakers are mostly ex-employees of the big tech firms.

Your take is completely incorrect, unsurprisingly, given you haven’t even seen it.

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