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The Social Dilemma

thesocialdilemma.com

281–290 of 421 posts

Re: The Social Dilemma

#281
post #3

I just watched this last night. A lot of the content will already be well known to the HN audience. There was one big light-bulb moment for me. One of the speakers was clarifying the "If you're not paying then you are the product" idea. He refined it to, (rough quote), "Changes to your behavior and actions are the product" That distinction made the insidiousness much more clear than the former statement.

I work as en external examiner for various CS students, and in my country they do a couple of internships at real companies as part of their degree. At some point around five years ago, or perhaps a little before that, there started being psychology students on some of the courses. A trend that has since grown quite a bit, especially if you happen upon a group project involving mobile gaming.

It’s something I would have likely never met in my my career, but there is an amazing amount of social engineering going on a these places. 20 years ago if you got the odd group of students who did anything gaming related, it would typically be very nerdy, terribly executed and often a very socially awkward exam even for CS standards. These days it feels like I’m very likely examining a group of people out of which two or three are likely to be my executives in a decade if they chose to pursue a career in the public sector.

It’s really interesting how the humanities have crept in and in some way taken over, isn’t it? And all because we didn’t want to pay a coffees worth of money to have the online yellow pages. It’ll be even more interesting to see what happens to this sale of social engineering once legislation eventually catches on.

Re: The Social Dilemma

#282
Does anyone see a tipping point or an event that could in scale drive people from social media of Facebook, Twitter. By that I don't mean to a competitor.(perhaps a naive question)

Also, is there a common denominator among people here who have stopped using social media? I mean, other than self awareness, retrospective ect. which people here generally have more than the average population.

What was the "I need to reduce or stop looking at facebook so often moment?" Mine was the fact that I became aware that I'm essentially a dog from Pavlovs experiment where instead of a bell I have a notification sound/buzz and instead of a biscuit I get a little dopamin shot. Second was the trackers, especially as they got better and faster. I started feeling 'cheap', as I feel in reality when a merchant uses obviously exaggerated claims while acting as a friend to try to convince me to buy something. (Like last time I went to a car dealership, yuck) Third is that the connection to people I care about, close family and friends, is much better served via private group messaging apps and news via HN and others.

Re: The Social Dilemma

#283
post #3

I just watched this last night. A lot of the content will already be well known to the HN audience. There was one big light-bulb moment for me. One of the speakers was clarifying the "If you're not paying then you are the product" idea. He refined it to, (rough quote), "Changes to your behavior and actions are the product" That distinction made the insidiousness much more clear than the former statement.

my light bulb moment was when they compare Wikipedia with Facebook and Google. I took a moment of pause and probably thought about for the first time in my life how this changes the whole narrative. Facebook and Google actually manipulates you to give you a different picture of the reality and basically dividing us even on the subjects of prime importance like global warming, corona virus etc where we can't afford to form different opinions. They shouldn't be allowed to do that sometimes its the question of life and death.

Re: The Social Dilemma

#284
I think its good documentaries like this are made, so a greater audience gets attuned with these issues, but I for one could not get further than about 30-mins... I was honestly disappointed that such an important topic was deemed too "complex" and "nerdy" that the creators decided to resort to actors to show us the effects of these technologies... Which I guess is in line with the short attention spans caused by social media :/

Re: The Social Dilemma

#285
post #125

I find TikTok is the most insidious of all the social media apps out there. If Instagram is like candy, TikTok is like crack. Worst part is the primary demographic is younger kids/teens.

I just remember when it was called Musical.ly and advertised with videos of very young teens dancing.

Re: The Social Dilemma

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

social contact is a need. I don't think i can actually survive without watsapp.

I'll be the first to tell you that humans are social beings that need social contact. I'll also be the first to tell you that social media is not necessary for that. I assume you're being hyperbolic with Whatsapp being vital for life, but do you honestly not know how humans got their fill of social interaction 12 years ago? And no, the answer isn't Facebook.

It's hyperbole, but it still indicates a hidden very real and well known social dynamic: humans have an intrinsic drive to belong to a tribe.

This is a very real behavioral mechanism which was essential to human survival as early as the paleolithicum and the emergence of the first hominid species. Not belonging to a tribe meant being exposed to hardships that you might not survive.

Feeling lonely is part of that mechanism. That's your subconscious kicking you into high gear and go seek companionship in order to ensure your chances to survive as an individual.

Kurz Gesagt explains this dynamic in more detail. [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Xv_g3g-mA

Modern technology, industrialisation and social advancements in healthcare, politics, law enforcement and agriculture have created circumstances in which you don't need to physically belong to a tribe 24/7 in order to survive. You can perfectly live alone and have your basic needs covered.

However, that drive for social connection is still there. That's hard wired into us. And that's what social media companies are exploiting.

Fear of missing out is exactly that. You don't want to be "out of the loop", you don't want to miss out on what's going on, you don't want to find yourself "outside" of a group. Think about how it was when you were in school, and you found out your friends had a get-together over the weekend and you weren't invited: it totally sucked. Well, that's basically that primitive part of your brain kicking into high gear, warning you that your survival may be at stake.

12 years ago, few people were on social media. And the vast majority of your friends contacted each other via cell phones, e-mail or MSN and such. You were less likely to miss out because you knew that the available channels didn't cater to 24/7 real time action with video and audio, plugging you in the middle of the action remotely.

Today, that's totally different. Modern communication is literally that: 24/7 high intense social contacts with video/photo/audio fragmented across dozens of group chats, group calls,.. and dozens of channels to keep track off.

Net result? Studies indicate an increased prevalence in anxiety, depression, loneliness, suicide, self harm and so on. There's a clear correlation between the two. As is shown in the documentary.

The trade off of weaning off from all of that, for many, is having to battle with and against those engrained behavioural changes that make one grasp for their smartphone every other minute. And that's, basically, the very definition of addiction.

Moreover, unlike other addictions, there's a very real chance that if you don't look at your smartphone for a day that, yes, you will miss out on information the in-crowd - peers at school, friends, co-workers with watercooler talk,... - deems important to know.

Re: The Social Dilemma

#287

ha, the hypocrites, below is the dns request ublock origin showing on this site ```thesocialdilemma.com``` ```www.thesocialdilemma.com``` ```doubleclick.net``` ```googleads.g.doubleclick.net``` ```static.doubleclick.net``` ```fonts.googleapis.com``` ```youtube.com``` ```www.youtube.com``` if they truly have virtue, they could have used some other open sources to build the site

https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/ :-)

:-), haha not my intention, but i watched the documentary and it seemed pretty intense, so just got curious why they used google things

Re: The Social Dilemma

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is fine sending a comment expressing opinion. There are so many qualitatives differences: - This is human to human communication, not an optimised algorithm. - People here are not sending you 10 comments and looking at the one which you engaged the most time, because they don't have the metrics. Social media knows how many seconds you looked at a post and classify it with AI, they can make a profile of your cur…

In a conversation, you subconsciously build a model of the mind of person you are talking to, and your words are tuned to fill the gap between what they know and are thinking and the ideas you are trying to express. If I think back through my life, the communication that has affected me most as been from humans in face-to-face conversations, not on websites. But I could be bad at objectively evaluating this. I think…

I also think a human can be much better at influencing people 1-on-1. But adapting his speech to two people at the same time? That's more difficult. There's only so many tricks you can use to have two different people hear what they want to hear. 5 people? 10? 2 billions?

That's the scary thing. Facebook is good enough at influencing someone, but they do it for half the population of the world simultaneously.

Re: The Social Dilemma

#289

I really like this documentary/film, but if I’m being honest, it does leave a taste of typical SV virtue signaling in my mouth. The website explicitly states that their site allows cookies "set through our site by our advertising partners and may be used to build a profile of your interests and show you relevant ads on other sites." Since visiting I received two ads for “Moment” in instagram, and one for Asana on You…

Not to mention the film is funded and owned by Netflix itself.

as Bill Hicks warned us against, it's like the anti-advertising dollar the advertisers are marketing to.

Re: The Social Dilemma

#290
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was actually baffled by this move. Is Netflix going to war with FB and Google? I mean, Netflix itself collects a tonne of data... The film called out FB, Google and Twitter numerous times while Netflix was conveniently missed. Not saying I'd expect them to damage their own brand, but it's still very, very close to shooting yourself in your own foot.

Either Apple, Microsoft, nor Amazon were mentioned. All of which collect data. The difference being neither run a social network. Well, LinkedIn is one, I suppose.

Does Google run a social network? There was plus, but that's gone. Youtube is kind of a social network I guess? But I don't know anyone that uses it as anything other than a one way means of communication.
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