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The Social Dilemma

thesocialdilemma.com

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Re: The Social Dilemma

#201

Post by manapause »

mitchdoogle wrote: post #190
codysc wrote: post #3

I just watched this last night. A lot of the content will already be well known to the HN audience. There was one big light-bulb moment for me. One of the speakers was clarifying the "If you're not paying then you are the product" idea. He refined it to, (rough quote), "Changes to your behavior and actions are the product" That distinction made the insidiousness much more clear than the former statement.

This kind of wording is conspiratorial mumbo jumbo. A social media's product is it's platform and software. Their revenue comes from advertising. No one ever told someone watching network TV in the 80s, "you are the product", because that would be ridiculous. It's no less ridiculous to do that with websites and phone apps. Why can't we just have a frank discussion about advertising and privacy without this kind of ma…

“Talking past each other” is now the norm; culture is not a solution of molecules that can settle back down - how the crap do we unbake a cake?

This sounds like fluff: appreciating the art, style, aesthetic of the work/entity we are talking to should be #1 goal.

Engaging in the appreciation of art is to jettison our judgement of the subject to focus on the choices “why” and “how.”

I don’t know if this groks with anyone else....that’s kinda part of it too.

The prospect of work being judged by peers negatively is the pain amplifier on all our hands.

There are some of us out there - good people that are just broken.

Their path has made them feel it as if it’s on all the time, and they are as unstable and judgemental as they arw talented.

I have no idea how to fix the broken - I am just trying to paint myself whole again, one human interaction at a time.

Re: The Social Dilemma

#202

Post by sriram_malhar »

closeparen wrote: post #192
hervature wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be the first to tell you that humans are social beings that need social contact. I'll also be the first to tell you that social media is not necessary for that. I assume you're being hyperbolic with Whatsapp being vital for life, but do you honestly not know how humans got their fill of social interaction 12 years ago? And no, the answer isn't Facebook.

It’s no longer socially acceptable to make unprompted PSTN voice calls, unless you and the recipient are on very familiar terms. Even with my parents, we always arrange a time via messaging first.

That would mean your parents and you are not on very familiar terms. Perhaps that is the situation for you, but it is by no means generalisable.

I live pretty well without any personal social media. I call friends and family often, while being mindful of their time. Voice calls are wonderful.

Re: The Social Dilemma

#203

Post by closeparen »

hervature wrote: post #198
closeparen wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s no longer socially acceptable to make unprompted PSTN voice calls, unless you and the recipient are on very familiar terms. Even with my parents, we always arrange a time via messaging first.

Ok, and where exactly is Whatsapp a vital life necessity in your world of messaging before calling? Those also aren't forms of meaningful social interaction. I assume you again use messaging and/or voice to set up the actual interactions such as Christmas (or whatever you celebrate) and family get-togethers. I'm assuming you don't show up to those events and talk to your loved ones via Whatsapp. I don't have social m…

WhatsApp and its substitutes (iMessage, Facebook Messenger, Telegram, Signal, SMS) are where plans for richer interactions get made. If you don’t have any of these in common with a prospective social group, someone has to be highly motivated to relay plans to your landline.

Re: The Social Dilemma

#204

Post by octoberfranklin »

erentz wrote: post #5

I would like to see the ad driven model removed as an option. I think it would help. And I think there is a separate case to be made to end ad targeting for other (privacy) reasons. But while watching this I realized that wouldn’t be the entire solution. Social platforms would seemingly still be incentivized to drive up engagement and to keep users addicted to their platforms vs other platforms. So what are some othe…

We can't get rid of the ad-supported model because AML/KYC laws have crippled all other forms of micropayment. But paying with your attention is exempt from AML/KYC, so it dominates due to lower regulatory load.

I wrote a detailed comment about this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24006703

Re: The Social Dilemma

#208

Post by olive247 »

_wp3r wrote: post #185

Social Media platforms are like being famous without any of the good parts. You just get all the shitty parts of living your life with 1000 fake friends(I mean fans) like a hero complex, or an influence complex, or hyper sensitivity to judgement, or addiction to others opinions, or addiction, or suicide, or an inability to communicate with people different than you, or an inability to determine fact from scam, or a p…

Humans absolutely are not built for large social networks. There is a theory called Dunbar's number that suggests that humans have a cognitive limit of ~150 social relationships.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number

Re: The Social Dilemma

#209

Post by surround »

mavsman wrote: post #186
codysc wrote: post #3

I just watched this last night. A lot of the content will already be well known to the HN audience. There was one big light-bulb moment for me. One of the speakers was clarifying the "If you're not paying then you are the product" idea. He refined it to, (rough quote), "Changes to your behavior and actions are the product" That distinction made the insidiousness much more clear than the former statement.

It never occurred to me until now that Hacker News is free and this statement could be applied here as well, though I'm not exactly sure in what way.

> This is one of the few places where a tech outsider can be exposed to some of the topics that are on the minds of insiders. The caveat is that criticism of any of the conceptual bodies orbiting the starry notion of "tech startup" (social ramifications, diversity and discrimination, wealth and income, etc.) are heavily frowned upon. Now, are mods going through and sweeping away every comment that proclaims, "Tech bad."? (Mostly) no. But no one wants to bite the hand that feeds it, particularly when so many have usernames easily tied to their public personas. So it's disappointing but not surprising to see people hostile to or tip-toeing around said criticism.

> In any case, the basic dynamic is interesting: the less you pay for things directly, the more power you give up to those who do. The abstraction is largely symbolic for ads (consumers pay advertisers in higher product costs), but apparently where and when money exchanges hands matters to who ultimately has influence.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22513699

Re: The Social Dilemma

#210

Post by anongoesprivate »

ha, the hypocrites, below is the dns request ublock origin showing on this site

```thesocialdilemma.com``` ```www.thesocialdilemma.com``` ```doubleclick.net``` ```googleads.g.doubleclick.net``` ```static.doubleclick.net``` ```fonts.googleapis.com``` ```youtube.com``` ```www.youtube.com```

if they truly have virtue, they could have used some other open sources to build the site

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