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How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

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201–210 of 280 posts

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#201

My life got a lot better after I stopped considering questions in terms of my own preferences and started considering them in terms of how they would connect me to others. I really don’t want to go out for drinks after work. But this preference is nothing compared to how much I value the friendships that come from doing it. Hiking a mountain is not in the top 100 things I want to do with my weekend. But a shared expe…

This is why I became a consultant.

Paulo Freire writes of the oppressed being expected to import others in order to be included.

IMO our society could stand to demand less recognition of emotional demands of distant elites and landlords.

Americans are insanely entitled social police.

I’m all about lifting quality of life for the bottom at the expense of the top, cause let’s be real: it isn’t Elon or Gates literally conjuring those ideas and doing the work.

Somehow billions have been convinced to sign over the bulk of their value generation to people they don’t know.

Here’s a rich guy give him more money forever! is the new “belief” model.

How do I avoid adopting that belief behavior? Not meaning the literal trade, but the whole “accept that the rich are legally allowed to grift on collective effort”.

Behavior is constrained artificially for consistency. Because behavior is being managed by statistics and math is artificially constrained for consistency.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, I think I may be the exact opposite. It triggers anxiety within me, which then triggers perfectionism, which then triggers all kinds of unhealthy other compulsions. I really do try to tackle everything, and exceed expectations, at a personal cost (e.g., burnout). One time I lost 25 pounds due to stress, which ended up being a positive as I have kept it off, but was miserable at the time.

I definitely leaned on the perfectionist side. Some of this is messy and difficult to pull apart because although I brought this problem into the marriage my ex is not blameless either. One thing I know is a direct consequence of never saying no is a lack of respect and a lack of attraction. Regardless of why a person never says no they are seen as a doormat, which is unattractive in both men and women. On the messie…

Thank you for sharing! Your experience definitely resonates with me and I am similarly divorced. I especially relate to your comment about setting the bar high and it becoming expected instead of being appreciated that you’re going above and beyond. I have struggled with that at interpersonal and work relationships especially. Thanks again!

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#203
post #34

No means a lot more than “no” most of the time. My mom was Jehovah’s Witness, so I was raised always to take care of “the appearances”, always being polite, even when you disagree. When I moved to the US back in 2000, I “discovered” people have freedom to think and say whatever they want (kind of) and it was OK to dissent. The pendulum went the other way, and I became a big fan of Bill Maher and the “it’s OK to be po…

What's wrong with being kind and speaking to people with respect while you disagree with them? One of the big problems with the "politically incorrect" or "radical free speech" crowd is that your words can hurt people's feeling. And your tone can hurt people's feelings. And there's no good reason to tell someone "fuck off" when you can politely say no other than maybe you have things you're angry about that you haven…

> What's wrong with being kind and speaking to people with respect while you disagree with them?

The problem is that people intentionally manipulate what "being kind" means to try to silence others. The tactic, as far as I understand it, is to present an incredible level of sensitivity about anything that happens to disagree with their worldview such that even voicing a different opinion is treated as "disrespectful" and "unkind". It's an intentionally manipulative play that exploits people's desire to get along, with the outcome of only the most sensitive person's opinions being allowed to be voiced, everything else being characterized as unacceptable, and dissenters being ostracized.

It's weaponizing social etiquette as a means to enforce political compliance, all the while crying crocodile tears and claiming that they just want people to be "kind".

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#204
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t that a statistically valid assumption for reduced risk at the population level?

Do you consider spreading to other more vulnerable people as a bad COVID outcome?

I do, but also think it deserves more context.

I’m not sure most of the public dialogue is framed correctly. As the parent comment stated, it’s about quantifying risk. We (humans) are generally bad at thinking about risk in statistically relevant sense.

Even before that discussion can happen we need to define what is the appropriate level of non-zero acceptable risk and how to measure it. Is it more appropriate to measure in utilitarian or absolute terms?(E.g., is the risk of death to an elderly nursing home patient equivalent to the risk of death to an otherwise healthy teenager? I.e. are ‘life-years lost’ more important than lives lost?) I don’t know the answers, but only once we understand that risk can we accurately mitigate it.

Bypassing all that is just layering assumptions upon assumptions

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He did say something, he said that it bothers him to have to shape the way he speaks to other people so that they are not offended. And what exactly is weird about that? Sounds like life to me. And that he misunderstands free speech which is about the government not being able to imprison you or legally punish you for speech.

Free speech is a philosophical concept, it happens to be enshrined in law in the 1st Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America to prevent the government for imprisoning you for your speech, but it is first and foremost the philosophical concept, not the law. That concept used to be part of the social mores of the United States and much of the Western world, it isn't really any longer as your own c…

You clearly have a narrow view of the history of the United States because before the 1960's a black person could be murdered by a mob for saying the wrong thing to a white person. And those mob murderers would not be prosecuted. You call that a philosophical protection of free speech inshrined within the culture?

Also, you ever hear of anyone in America being punished for saying they're a communist or homosexual? Or is that fiction to you as well?

To any degree free speech was a thing, it was most often selectively afforded to white men. And now it is that same group who coincidentally seems to complain the loudest that they no longer can say exactly what they wish without consequences.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#206

My life got a lot better after I stopped considering questions in terms of my own preferences and started considering them in terms of how they would connect me to others. I really don’t want to go out for drinks after work. But this preference is nothing compared to how much I value the friendships that come from doing it. Hiking a mountain is not in the top 100 things I want to do with my weekend. But a shared expe…

The point of the article isn’t to never do anything someone else suggests. It’s to get you out of the habit of reflexively agreeing to do other people favors out of anxiety, guilt, or a sense of obligation. If you’ve said “yes” to every request that crossed your desk, you’re probably not going to be left with much time to go out for drinks or to go climb a mountain with your friends.

What you’re describing is more of a tension between going with your immediate emotional response (feeling annoyed that you have to expend some effort) versus your values (connecting with other people; other examples might be creating something, or leaving a positive legacy). That’s actually pretty congruent with the message of this piece. People who are habitual people-pleasers tend to let their initial emotional response of guilt or anxiety win over their values. The immediate outcomes may be different (over- vs. undercommitting), but the long term outcome in both cases is feeling like you’re living a life without much meaning or purpose.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are "High-Context culture people and Low-Context culture people"?

Also, "Once you have identified what type of culture someone tend to follow" -- what are good ways to do that sooner rather than later?

Typical characteristics from the two types : https://www2.pacific.edu/sis/culture/pub/context_cultures_hi...

Often it's pretty straight forward when you ask yourself the question.

As all cultural phenomenon, there is a strong local component to it but there are still many variations : knowing where they are from, whether they grow up in big city or small rural areas, is often a good starting guess. But after a few sentences exchange showing how direct or considerate of your specificity they are, how they value your time, you usually know without doubt.

It's just about making sure you are in the right communication mode with the right person.

To bring it back to the article theme :

The way people hear a no is also pretty characteristic. So listening to their reaction when you are telling them no is also a pretty strong signal.

For example if you tell no without justification to someone from high context culture when he asked something (if he ask it probably means that from his point of view he is expecting a positive answer) he won't probably take it good. And you have a few second to come-up with a sensible reason if you don't want to ruin the relationship.

Whereas someone from low context culture is usually more direct and the no carries less weight to give or take, as in their eyes it means they will just ask to the next person.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#208
I think the biggest thing for me, which wasn’t covered in this article, was in understanding that even by saying yes all the time you are NOT guaranteed to please or make the other party happy.

This is important to understand because, speaking for myself, my emotional motivation to please people stems from my primary desire to avoid emotional tension.

In understanding that even by sacrificing my own desire I’m in no way guaranteeing that outcome was a game changer for me. Furthermore, avoiding these negative emotions can make things worse or generate more of the emotion I was trying to avoid, in the long run.

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#209
post #106

My life got a lot better after I stopped considering questions in terms of my own preferences and started considering them in terms of how they would connect me to others. I really don’t want to go out for drinks after work. But this preference is nothing compared to how much I value the friendships that come from doing it. Hiking a mountain is not in the top 100 things I want to do with my weekend. But a shared expe…

This is one of the main reasons why I prefer living in big cities. Compared to other places I've stayed, it makes it a whole lot easier to build and maintain human connections with people whose preferences and interests overlap with mine. I also do plenty of activities I'm not really interested in for the sake of socializing. But always just adopting to whatever is most popular at a given time would be soulcrushing t…

An interesting dichotomy between big cities vs small towns has come up and being discussed the replies to this. Interesting that it is a very North America-centric perspective.

Go to South Korea or Japan and you'll find rural villages that are more densely packed than cities of 100,000+ in USA and Canada. This density allows for shops and convenience stores to be easily accessible and walkable in every neighbourhood, which nudges towards social interaction. Rather than sprawling everywhere, neighbourhoods are built with the same density as elsewhere (with small apartments, large apartment towers, and/or multifamily housing).

On the other end, megacities like Seoul and Tokyo are really just cities of many neighbourhoods with similar density to the rural towns, with a few areas that are more densely built and populated than others (typically centered around geographical or transportation features). Most neighbourhoods in Seoul or Tokyo feel the exact same as any neighbourhoods in "second tier" cities. (In fact, many "suburbs" of Seoul are more densely packed than Seoul itself due to legacy building heights!) But the smaller towns just don't have subway access to megacity-only amenities.

I suspect that a lot of folks who enjoy North American big city living would do just as well in a smaller East Asian town (aside from cultural and language difficulties).

Re: How to say no, for the people pleaser who always says yes

#210

My life got a lot better after I stopped considering questions in terms of my own preferences and started considering them in terms of how they would connect me to others. I really don’t want to go out for drinks after work. But this preference is nothing compared to how much I value the friendships that come from doing it. Hiking a mountain is not in the top 100 things I want to do with my weekend. But a shared expe…

The point of the article isn’t to never do anything someone else suggests. It’s to get you out of the habit of reflexively agreeing to do other people favors out of anxiety, guilt, or a sense of obligation. If you’ve said “yes” to every request that crossed your desk, you’re probably not going to be left with much time to go out for drinks or to go climb a mountain with your friends. What you’re describing is more of…

Importantly, if you don't reflexively say "yes" whenever someone asks you to do something, the article is not advice for you.
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