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You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

literaryreview.co.uk

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Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#61

Post by yummypaint »

Schiendelman wrote: post #59
mpfundstein wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i dont think her sex has anything to do with it. its a company culture thing. in some cultures interrupting is necessary to get heard even at the slightest, while at others people will outcast you as a 'different to work with'. in her next job, stuff might be totally different i've been in both cultures.

What makes you discount the role of sex? Honestly curious - it’s pervasive in workplace treatment issues across the gamut, but you discount it here? Why?

People get uncomfortable when they have to think about their privilege. It chips away at the bootstraps fantasy. As a white guy in a field that's mostly male i see this all the time. Lots of people's self worth seems to hinge on the ideal self-reliancy, so to recognize the unfairly positive treatment we receive is too much to bear for many. Instead, they expend their mental energy on finding ANY other passable explanation to divert conversation to a different subtopic to escape the negative emotions caused by the contradiction.

Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#62

Post by sumtechguy »

jahearn wrote: post #14
woodruffw wrote: post #4

"Cooperative overlap" -- I didn't know that there was a term for this! I've lived in NYC for my entire life (with the exception of my undergraduate), and it's something I've always noticed about my conversations with "native" friends versus transplants and friends from out-of-state.

As a born and raised New Yorker, I have lived this concept my whole life, and never knew the name for it either.

I am not a NY person. Yet I do this. One of my parents is from Buffalo though. I had no idea others did it! I thought I had a weird 'rude' quirk that I had to stomp down. I had to distinctly learn how to wait for the pause and how to interject at the 'just the right moment'. Instead of just getting it over with and blurting it out. I know there are all sorts of accents and customs. But today I learned about this one. Cadence is important too. I took several of those online 'where are you from' verbal tests over the years. Those can be kind of fun, I usually get 3 very different places. One somewhere I have never been and the other 2 are where I grew up and where I currently live. I talked a few dudes in another country to take the test. It thought they were from the New England area.

Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#63

Post by ethanbond »

wccrawford wrote: post #55
duxup wrote: post #29

Growing up in the Midwest I took a job with a Midwestern tech company that had a LOT of east coast banks as customers. Some folks would warn you that when you talked to them they're "really rude" but others would tell you that they sound harsh, but actually are really nice. It was a curious mix of warnings, and for the most part I certainly noticed the accent and different patterns, but didn't think twice about it. T…

My wife would be very quick to tell you that it would have gone very differently if a woman did the same thing. I've heard numerous stories where she didn't talk like that and nobody would listen to her. And I've heard the other stories where she did talk like that and got complaints from the other employees and ended up being talked to by her boss, even though she was correct and got stuff done. So while it's nice t…

This is definitely an area with a fairly large gap between the reactions that men and women get. One thing that’s useful to keep in mind though is that men who talk like this probably do also receive negative feedback. Negative feedback is not the end of the story, and in my experience one of the most useful skills a person can develop is to acknowledge negative feedback and then consciously decide how and whether to integrate it into behavior change.

Some behaviors can be both correct and make people uncomfortable. Of course this mechanic is also “gendered” in the sense that women would probably be less inclined to dismiss said feedback due to a lifetime of being raised as people pleasers (obviously not all women/cultures/etc), but this may be a place where it makes sense to undo some of that training and say, “if what I say is correct and useful, their discomfort with my speaking up is a problem for them to deal with.”

Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#64

Post by jkingsbery »

If you're looking to hear a typical accent today, turn on New York sports radio (https://www.radio.com/wfan/listen ) and listen to the segments where random people call in. You might not hear the old-time accent described in this article, but you'll hear a distinctly New York-area accent.

The interaction pattern is still the same though. I'm from New Jersey and (under normal, non-COVID circumstances) work in New York, and interrupting in conversation is taken as pretty natural.

Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#65

Post by michaelcampbell »

gambiting wrote: post #43
Synaesthesia wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In South Africa we will often say "hello" and "how are you?" before ordering, no exaggeration.

Sounds like UK - I've heard people use "you're alright mate?" Before just proceeding with the order as normal

I see/hear that a bit in some British panel shows that I enjoy; the host and sidekick will start with "You alright?" as a general intro phrase.

Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#66

Post by michaelcampbell »

stevekemp wrote: post #38
jpmattia wrote: post #23

> In dissecting the exaggerated New York accents of Bugs Bunny When I was a little kid in the 60s, I remember someone interviewing Mel Blanc (voice of Bugs). He couldn’t decide whether a Bronx or Brooklyn accent sounded tougher, so he chose elements of both for Bugs’ voice. Having grown up in CT, it was the first time I realized there were different regional accents even among the different NYC boroughs.

The UK, famously, has this too. There are numerous accents present which have very small and clear boundaries. You can hear different accents after walking only a mile or two away to the next village, or the other half of a city. Oddly fascinating, and something I really miss now I've moved to a different country - a country which to my ears sounds very much like there are only a couple of accents.

This video is one of my favorites for that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyyT2jmVPAk

A couple Brits I work with say it's pretty good.

Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#67

Post by duxup »

wccrawford wrote: post #55
duxup wrote: post #29

Growing up in the Midwest I took a job with a Midwestern tech company that had a LOT of east coast banks as customers. Some folks would warn you that when you talked to them they're "really rude" but others would tell you that they sound harsh, but actually are really nice. It was a curious mix of warnings, and for the most part I certainly noticed the accent and different patterns, but didn't think twice about it. T…

My wife would be very quick to tell you that it would have gone very differently if a woman did the same thing. I've heard numerous stories where she didn't talk like that and nobody would listen to her. And I've heard the other stories where she did talk like that and got complaints from the other employees and ended up being talked to by her boss, even though she was correct and got stuff done. So while it's nice t…

Yup.

There was one woman who worked at that place. She was super smart and way senior compared to me.

She'd call me over and I'd pretend to be her manager from time to time.... the moment I said the same thing she did, they'd accept it.

Sometimes I didn't even know what she was asking me to say, she'd just sigh and hand me a piece of paper and I'd read it to them...

Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#68

Post by test1235 »

michaelcampbell wrote: post #65
gambiting wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like UK - I've heard people use "you're alright mate?" Before just proceeding with the order as normal

I see/hear that a bit in some British panel shows that I enjoy; the host and sidekick will start with "You alright?" as a general intro phrase.

I like to think of it as the English version of the French 'ca va'.

"Alright?"

"Alright."

Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#69

Post by alexpotato »

chrisco255 wrote: post #11

Yeah, regional American accents are dying, unfortunately. I think they added a lot of color to dialog in the U.S. My own grandfather grew up in the Appalachians during the Great Depression and has to this day the thickest accent and the funniest idioms. But with each generation after him the accent has worn off more and more. When you go to NYC you kinda hope to run into these old school New Yorkers and have them tur…

> Yeah, regional American accents are dying, unfortunately.

I don't have the exact source but I believe research has shown the opposite. When cable television started becoming more common about 20 years ago, there was a belief that a common "source accent" would flatten out regional differences in accents. Apparently, it has made accents more distinct as people, consciously or not, were using those accents as a "tribal marker" to differentiate themselves from the rest of the country.

On a broader note, I remember reading an OpEd in the late 90's that predicted that because people were going to be getting all of their information from a common source (aka the Internet) that it would eliminate debates between regions of the US. The idea was that with shared common information, we would all have shared beliefs. Obviously, this completely missed the ball with regards to personalized streams of information (e.g. Netflix, Pandora etc).

Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#70

Post by leephillips »

If this interests you, and you haven't already, you might want to look up some videos of R. Feynman talking or lecturing. There are plenty on youtube. Sounded like a New Yorker to the end, despite having lived most of his life in, I guess, California.
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