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You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

literaryreview.co.uk

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Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#51

Post by pjc50 »

duxup wrote: post #29

Growing up in the Midwest I took a job with a Midwestern tech company that had a LOT of east coast banks as customers. Some folks would warn you that when you talked to them they're "really rude" but others would tell you that they sound harsh, but actually are really nice. It was a curious mix of warnings, and for the most part I certainly noticed the accent and different patterns, but didn't think twice about it. T…

Yeah, a lot of social settings have this kind of thing where there's a minimum "buy in" level of .. aggression? Pushiness? Assertiveness? required to effectively participate. Quickly learning what the right level is is an important skill.

And if you're somebody from a very different-sounding background, or a woman, how your intended assertiveness level is read by the audience may be a problem.

Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#53

Post by Megranium »

jamil7 wrote: post #35
chrisco255 wrote: post #11

Yeah, regional American accents are dying, unfortunately. I think they added a lot of color to dialog in the U.S. My own grandfather grew up in the Appalachians during the Great Depression and has to this day the thickest accent and the funniest idioms. But with each generation after him the accent has worn off more and more. When you go to NYC you kinda hope to run into these old school New Yorkers and have them tur…

Thats interesting. I’ve heard the same about the UK. Here in Germany the regional accents go further into becoming whole dialects, people tend to keep them while learning a standard German in school. Strangely I’ve been told that in New Zealand the accents are getting stronger among young people. I dropped my Australian accent subconsciously when I moved to Europe years ago as it wasn’t practical and hard to be under…

Interesting that you percieve it that way. Like, accents becoming dialects, not the other way round. I'd think "dialects" like lower german, Plattdeutsch, Bavarian etc. are older than current standard German, and what remains of them are the accents.

That being said, especially in rural areas, the dialects are well kept. In fact, being from the western regions of Germany, I have a hard time understanding villagers from the Black Forest if they talk their native dialect.

Still, in urban areas, the general trend is the same, no ? Dialects are spoken by less and less people (in fact I don't speak a single word of Plattdeutsch, even if I'm from an area where it was once common). What remains are temporary sociolects and accents. At least that's my perception of things.

Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#54

Post by MisterTea »

> Take one of the sounds typically associated with New York speech – the oi that’s heard when ‘bird’ is pronounced boid, ‘earl’ oil, ‘certainly’ soitanly, and so on.

My grandmudda spoke liked dat. She grew up in Brooklyn, one of 9 kids in an Irish immigrant family. Another fond pronunciation I remember was she pronounced toilet as ter-let. "Dija flush the terlet?"

I myself still maintain a "disgustingly thick" (as a co-worker once put it) NYC accent owing to growing up among many Italian Americans in a little neighborhood called Ozone Park. When traveling, upon opening my mouth, people immediatly recognize where I'm from.

Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#55

Post by wccrawford »

duxup wrote: post #29

Growing up in the Midwest I took a job with a Midwestern tech company that had a LOT of east coast banks as customers. Some folks would warn you that when you talked to them they're "really rude" but others would tell you that they sound harsh, but actually are really nice. It was a curious mix of warnings, and for the most part I certainly noticed the accent and different patterns, but didn't think twice about it. T…

My wife would be very quick to tell you that it would have gone very differently if a woman did the same thing.

I've heard numerous stories where she didn't talk like that and nobody would listen to her.

And I've heard the other stories where she did talk like that and got complaints from the other employees and ended up being talked to by her boss, even though she was correct and got stuff done.

So while it's nice to recognize that that tone can get stuff done, it doesn't work for everyone and people who don't use that tone can also get things done. You might just have to listen harder.

Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#56

Post by mpfundstein »

wccrawford wrote: post #55
duxup wrote: post #29

Growing up in the Midwest I took a job with a Midwestern tech company that had a LOT of east coast banks as customers. Some folks would warn you that when you talked to them they're "really rude" but others would tell you that they sound harsh, but actually are really nice. It was a curious mix of warnings, and for the most part I certainly noticed the accent and different patterns, but didn't think twice about it. T…

My wife would be very quick to tell you that it would have gone very differently if a woman did the same thing. I've heard numerous stories where she didn't talk like that and nobody would listen to her. And I've heard the other stories where she did talk like that and got complaints from the other employees and ended up being talked to by her boss, even though she was correct and got stuff done. So while it's nice t…

i dont think her sex has anything to do with it. its a company culture thing.

in some cultures interrupting is necessary to get heard even at the slightest, while at others people will outcast you as a 'different to work with'.

in her next job, stuff might be totally different

i've been in both cultures.

Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#57

Post by jamil7 »

Megranium wrote: post #53
jamil7 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats interesting. I’ve heard the same about the UK. Here in Germany the regional accents go further into becoming whole dialects, people tend to keep them while learning a standard German in school. Strangely I’ve been told that in New Zealand the accents are getting stronger among young people. I dropped my Australian accent subconsciously when I moved to Europe years ago as it wasn’t practical and hard to be under…

Interesting that you percieve it that way. Like, accents becoming dialects, not the other way round. I'd think "dialects" like lower german, Plattdeutsch, Bavarian etc. are older than current standard German, and what remains of them are the accents. That being said, especially in rural areas, the dialects are well kept. In fact, being from the western regions of Germany, I have a hard time understanding villagers fr…

Yeah I agree with you, I'm not a native German speaker but I have a hard time with regional German dialects, especially in the South. You're correct though the trend is mostly the same it's very rare to hear the Berlin dialect but it does happen from time to time.

Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#58

Post by OJFord »

nkozyra wrote: post #10
IIAOPSW wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a line you stand on, it just isn't drawn explicitly in ink or paint.

If there's no line then you're simply in a sequence of points. But if we get pedantic we accept this will never satisfy the definition of a geometric line and the Brits were right all along to call them queues.

Yep, I think so. ;)

You're always 'in the' queue (or queuing) though, not 'on' it. So if you must call it a 'line' or a 'line-up', I sympathise most with 'in'.

Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#59

Post by Schiendelman »

mpfundstein wrote: post #56
wccrawford wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife would be very quick to tell you that it would have gone very differently if a woman did the same thing. I've heard numerous stories where she didn't talk like that and nobody would listen to her. And I've heard the other stories where she did talk like that and got complaints from the other employees and ended up being talked to by her boss, even though she was correct and got stuff done. So while it's nice t…

i dont think her sex has anything to do with it. its a company culture thing. in some cultures interrupting is necessary to get heard even at the slightest, while at others people will outcast you as a 'different to work with'. in her next job, stuff might be totally different i've been in both cultures.

What makes you discount the role of sex? Honestly curious - it’s pervasive in workplace treatment issues across the gamut, but you discount it here? Why?

Re: You Talkin’ to Me? The Unruly History of New York English

#60

Post by mbroncano »

Cactus2018 wrote: post #34

Another fun article: > Talk Like a Texan: How Texans Use “Down,” “Out,” “Over,” and “Up” https://www.texasmonthly.com/being-texan/being-texan-preposi... Thread with 131 posts : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16327812

That was awesome, thanks!
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