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I no longer build software

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Re: I no longer build software

#871

Post by dahfizz »

notacoward wrote: post #824
dahfizz wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to take a wild guess that you are a web developer. I'm a happy low level systems developer. I solve hard and interesting problems that have nothing to do with ads.

Who are your customers? There are plenty of low level systems developers at Facebook and Google and so on. The solve the same hard and interesting problems that you do, probably at greater scale so they're even more hard and interesting. Often they're many layers removed from the people who directly get others to click ads. Being a low-level developer, or being at a separate company, doesn't necessarily put you at an…

I work in Fintech, our customers are banks and the like. They actually buy our software because it generates value directly instead of trading in human attention.

Maybe you think banks are just as bad as advertisers but I tell myself I am enabling the tens of millions of Americans who have retirement accounts. The day-to-day is enjoyable nonetheless.

Re: I no longer build software

#872

Post by notacoward »

dahfizz wrote: post #871
notacoward wrote: post #824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are your customers? There are plenty of low level systems developers at Facebook and Google and so on. The solve the same hard and interesting problems that you do, probably at greater scale so they're even more hard and interesting. Often they're many layers removed from the people who directly get others to click ads. Being a low-level developer, or being at a separate company, doesn't necessarily put you at an…

I work in Fintech, our customers are banks and the like. They actually buy our software because it generates value directly instead of trading in human attention. Maybe you think banks are just as bad as advertisers but I tell myself I am enabling the tens of millions of Americans who have retirement accounts. The day-to-day is enjoyable nonetheless.

> Maybe you think banks are just as bad as advertisers

Banks as in consumer banks? Maybe not. Commercial banks, brokerages, hedge funds? Welp. I admit that some of those have made my imminent retirement possible, but from a broader view I don't see much good about how large the US financial sector is compared to the overall economy or the preferential treatment they get from our government.

> I tell myself I am enabling the tens of millions of Americans who have retirement accounts.

I'm sure many at Facebook would say they're enabling small businesses and non-profits directly through advertising, and many more "little people" through the platform(s) that those ad dollars pay for. They're also enabling some very unsavory people and behaviors, as are most in fintech. Read the news lately? ;) Everyone likes to dump on ad-funded businesses. I've done so myself. It's not entirely unjustified, but sometimes it seems disproportionate and even hypocritical.

Re: I no longer build software

#873

Post by fxtentacle »

samatman wrote: post #795
fxtentacle wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I deserve the "elitist" label, but yes, I find this development very negative. While I agree with your point that hobby startups distribute money and enlarge the market, I was trying to point out that people working under management with no experience will probably not learn their craft well. In my opinion, the old apprentice system used for jobs like becoming a carpenter would be quite appropriate for s…

Xtracycle Edgerunner. Not only will it easily take that weight, it's designed to comfortably carry a passenger and cargo. Or the Yuba Mundo, there are a few other brands. And you can get them in electric, if your thighs aren't made of steel cable. Yuba Mundo is $1800, which sounds like a lot, but with inflation that's well under a grand at the time when more bikes were heavy and over-engineered. With the nice side ef…

Thanks :) I had not heard of them before, but yeah that's kind of what I was hoping to find, but then didn't find.

Re: I no longer build software

#874

Post by bobbyz »

etripe wrote: post #529
bobbyz wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A younger developer might think the tools that suck. A younger developer might think that the older developer's reluctance to embrace change or recall the time when they were beginners is part of the reason why they suck. Like git. Git sucks.

If you think git sucks, which VCS sucks less? I've only tried TFS and SVN myself, but I find git the best option among them.

I think this is precisely the problem. Sure, you can make incremental improvements to existing systems, but what if all existing systems are bad? Once in a while, you have to design a totally new system based on concepts and metaphors that everyone understands.

Re: I no longer build software

#875

Post by Recurecur »

jb1991 wrote: post #20

Amen. Modern software development is frankly kinda sucky. The old days pre-2000 were arguably a lot more enjoyable. Today it's just digital plumbing and dealing with all sorts of issues that are not creative. The sheer complexity is frankly absurd as well. I've thought about moving on from software many times, and I know many who have. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's best way to spend your short l…

This is a very narrow view. I've probably practiced software development longer than almost anyone on this thread - right at 40 years. I'm still a practicing software engineer, doing "enterprisey" software development in Java. Still interesting, lots of challenges, and yes, lots of complexity.

That said, I've done a lot of other things over my career, and one reason it's stayed interesting is the variety. If I wanted a change right now I'd probably look at small embedded systems work.

With all the AI, IOT, scientific, real time control, and robotics software being developed these days, I think there are a lot of interesting directions available!

I'll add a shameless plug for Julia, which I think could become a major general purpose programming language, and which makes for some enjoyable development!

(On the "best use of one's body", I have some sympathy there, but "balance in all things". Or just up your rates and work 32 hour weeks. heh)

Re: I no longer build software

#876

Post by speg »

snazz wrote: post #346
wmeredith wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These saw brake systems aren’t on “modern table saws”. This system is branded and patented and only exists on Saw Stop table saws (no affiliation). If I recall correctly, the inventor took the tech to the big saw makers when it was first in invented and was turned away, because of some combination of he wanted too much money and they didn’t want the liability of marketing a “safe” table saw. So he started his own com…

Huh! Thanks for the correction. I was under the impression that it was more widespread. I forget the brand of the table saw I used most recently, but I do know that it has that feature.

Saw Stop is the original one. Bosch does have their own version called Reaxx, though it drops down through the table. They don't sell it in the United States due to patent issues with the Saw Stop version.

Re: I no longer build software

#877

Post by friendlybus »

altdatathrow wrote: post #557
tluyben2 wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention that those CRUD apps have been done, exactly the same, 10000s of times before and 10000s of people are doing the same work you are doing now at this moment. Everyone thinks they are productive but value is being burned all day, every day in most companies all over the world. The level of reuse is depressing and people, especially here, firmly believe we need to use the latest frontend and backend crap…

Unfortunately there are a lot of people around these parts who have arrived at the conclusion that the only way to build software today is using all those services and more (I mean, where's kubernetes in that stack?). They will aggressively defend their role which is no longer about creating software but instead entirely about weaving together a myriad of components.

>They will aggressively defend their role which is no longer about creating software but instead entirely about weaving together a myriad of components.

Same thing is happening with mechanics. Young mechanics repairing parts less often, more handing off parts in need of minor repair to specialists and a focus on fitting parts.

Re: I no longer build software

#878

Post by chpmrc »

nescioquid wrote: post #497
chpmrc wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can order a comfy car anywhere I am with the tap of a button. I can order food from hundreds of restaurants and have it delivered in less than 30 mins with the tap of a button. I can book flights and hotels with the tap of a button. I can play with friends in virtual reality and actually sweat. I can watch a live stream of SpaceX launching reusable rockets in space. I could buy a car that is almost fully "self driv…

Reading this litany of technologically-enabled consumer achievements, I thought of David Graeber who visited the disappointment we sometimes feel for how things actually went from mid-century to now. "[...]Where, in short, are the flying cars? Where are the force fields, tractor beams, teleportation pods, antigravity sleds, tricorders, immortality drugs, colonies on Mars, and all the other technological wonders any c…

How about a counterexample? Drones? Human flying (Zapata Flyboard Air, Gravity's jetpack)? Life expectancy increasing steadily? And we do have cryogenics.

The answer to "what happened to them" is the same as "what happened to curing cancer?": those things are hard. And assuming that we would have solved them by now if people had spent their valuable time on those problems instead of making ads better is just wishful thinking. Throwing more brains at a problem won't solve it more quickly, especially if those brains weren't interested in solving that particular problem in the first place (if they were they would be working on it).

Re: I no longer build software

#879

Post by matttb »

0xEFF wrote: post #857
sli wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never worked a development job where I get any say in avoiding buzzwords or delivering solutions I would call cool. I typically get caught up in clients bikeshedding irrelevant details and managers enabling and promoting it. I hear so much on HN and on reddit about jobs that give programmers some level of autonomy but I just don't see it. My entire experience is very much the opposite, and I absolutely loathe th…

Consult. If your client doesn’t follow your advice most of the time move on to a client who does.

It's dramatically easier to find work than to consult. Especially if you've spent your career at 1-2 very small companies and have zero 'network' to tap into. The idea of beginning consulting is more daunting to me than switching careers is.

Re: I no longer build software

#880

Post by gnu »

ci5er wrote: post #721
aarongough wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately I agree with this. A great quote I saw a while ago: “The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads.” –Jeff Hammerbacher Every paying software job I've ever had was in some way involved getting people to click on ads. Either directly making a product where ad click rate is a measured metric, or products that helped people make products where clicking on ads was a metric.…

> Every paying software job I've ever had was in some way involved getting people to click on ads. That's an amazing fact. May I ask how old you are? I've been designing SOCs, DSPs, Control Systems and a lot of software for various systems since 1985, and I can only recall one that might have been close to "clicking on ads" (it was a personalized "on hold" system for dial-in to major retailers (like JCP), to replace…

Same. I am in the industry for 20+ years and thankfully none of my jobs have involved anything close to ads.
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