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Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

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Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#321

Post by heavyset_go »

sudoaza wrote: post #287
rvn1045 wrote: post #92

The lack of self awareness amongst upper caste Indians in India and abroad is interesting to witness. They often think of themselves as having come from humble backgrounds and 'made it' in society all on their own. Not realizing that the vast majority of Indians in India live in abject poverty without any meaningful access to basic education and other amenities. Upper caste Indians are more likely to have access to b…

This is true for most countries, how many developers do you know that come from real poor families? In my experience most had it pretty good, that's why they had a computer and maybe internet growing up, and time to play with it, and time to study instead of working to support yourself and the family.

We exist. I was lucky enough to have a parent who bought a second-hand computer after years of asking for one, and not being able to afford it. They were relatively expensive then, so it was a real sacrifice that I'm still grateful for to this day.

One of the things I've learned is that if you don't use euphemisms to minimize the poverty that you came from, some people treat you differently when they understand what poverty actually means and what it meant for you. For that reason, I tend not to share, or be completely honest about it.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#322

Post by screye »

varbhat wrote: post #44

It is problem of those casteist employees of Cisco , Cisco , it's management and it's rules. They are simply not proper. There are many casteists too in many companies who must be terminated from Employment if casteist behavior is found. Note that not all upper-caste People are casteist and harmful. I also see many Rich People whose ancestors were Dalits, who no longer need any financial grant/food/shelter from the G…

> I also see many Rich People whose ancestors were Dalits, who no longer need any financial grant/food/shelter from the Government claiming it from Government. It only harms very poor Dalits in need.

This is something I have been thinking quite a lot about.

The Govt. really struggles to cap affirmative action to only those who need it.

I knew people who were from lower castes, used reservation to get in and had Macbooks, iPhones and spent summers abroad touring.

How hard is it to disqualify them due to financial means ? There are too many poor Dalits who would rather use those seats.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#323

Post by zapdrive »

ImamBayildi wrote: post #280
macintux wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please reference the site guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Accusing someone of lying violates several of them.

But original comment is a lie. There are thousands of castes all over the country - different in every state. So education boards create categories (named 1,2A,2R etc.) Each such category is an umbrella for x number of castes. And perhaps this category is indicated next to students' name and not the caste itself.

Thank you. This is what I'm trying to explain. E.g. you might see "SC" for scheduled caste or "ST" for scheduled tribe, but you will NEVER see anything like "choorha", "chamaar", or even "dalit". And even when it days dalit, it's in regard to their quota, not caste.

Heck, colleges are not even allowed to ask your caste, only under what quota you are seeking admission!

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#324

Post by subsubzero »

Never knew caste discrimination was alive and well, this article is an eye-opener. Some questions I have regarding these things, if a Dalit is considered an "untouchable" how would they even get into an elite univ? I have heard of reservations but going to a school where a majority of your classmates don't like you due to your caste must be incredibly tough, also how do they afford it? state subsidies?

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#325

Post by kelnos »

mabbo wrote: post #304

At no point do they say "Our company does not and did not allow discrimination against a person for being dalit". That is all they would have to say to take a clear stance- and they don't. > "Cisco is committed to an inclusive workplace for all," the company said in a statement to online news site thewire. > "We have robust processes to report and investigate concerns raised by employees which were followed in this c…

Yup. And IIRC caste isn't a protected class in the US, they can completely ignore the problem -- or even actively allow or endorse it! -- and still be "fully in compliance with all laws".

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#326

Post by bluGill »

blueterminal wrote: post #49
LatteLazy wrote: post #19

The core issue in market heavy economies is that people with money make money and everyone else doesn't. Being smart and hard working and having poor parents means you will be poor. Being dumb and lazy with rich parents means you will be rich. Maybe with 3 or 4 full generations of nothing but hard work and luck you might make it up from working to middle class. Maybe. This is never really discussed directly. Only usi…

> Maybe with 3 or 4 full generations of nothing but hard work and luck you might make it up from working to middle class. Maybe. This is a ridiculous over-exaggeration in the age of internet.

No, 3-4 generations is about right. The first generation needs to work hard just to ensure there is enough food for the next. Without enough food everything else is done: intelligence is greatly harmed by not enough food. That Food then lets the next generation work a little smarter, and send their kids to school instead of the kids having to work as well just to ensure there is enough. The kids now have some education to work with, but unless they get scholarships it isn't enough to get ahead, but it is enough to save for their kids scholarships. There you go, 3-4 generations to get out of the hole - assuming everyone all works hard to get out, anyone can drop back (either from laziness or bad luck).

Luck is important too. I read an article about a widow in India being giving a loan for a tractor. 2 months payments on the loan have to amount to about a year of her previous income (note that the other 10 months need to be repaid - this is a loan not a gift). A tractor is such a force multiplier that she is able to make the payments all year and save up enough to dream of sending her son to a good school. This whole thing depends on someone being willing to risk giving someone a loan who clearly doesn't make enough to pay it off.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#327

Post by busrf »

erikerikson wrote: post #173

Here we just call it class.

I don’t think it’s the same thing as what we think of as class. I found these comment threads made some of the differences clear to me:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24556347

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24554209

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#328

Post by avisser »

bluGill wrote: post #225
mywittyname wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point, wouldn't it be difficult for people to tell? A person who grew up outside of India will only have a passing understanding of this nuance anyway, because they would not have been regularly exposed to the other group, so their entire understanding will be from what is passed to them by their parents. And the next generation will have next to zero understanding. Plus, those nuances will probably get erase…

Maybe. The slave class in the US was in theory gone by 1870 (I don't care to look up the end of the civil war. 150 years latter a lot of people still know who is a descendant of that class. Somehow, something, fueled that through several generations.

I'm not sure how it fits in, but it's interesting that the first Black American president was not a descendant of that class.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#329

Post by MisterBastahrd »

tomp wrote: post #295
cvhashim wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I scoff and roll my eyes at individuals who argue that tech is a meritocracy when discrimination between countrymen is happening even in companies like Google.

Nobody argues that tech is a meritocracy. Meritocracy is just an ideal, just like freedom, equality and defensive driving; it’s worth striving towards but you cannot ever reach it (and if you think you’ve reached it, you’ll inevitably start falling behind). Having said that, it’s one of the most meritocratic industries; do you know any billionaire doctors or lawyers that are college dropouts?

Rand Paul does not have a bachelor's degree.

He does have an MD. And is a US Senator.

Wonder how that happened. Oh, right, meritocracy.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#330

Post by MisterBastahrd »

Loughla wrote: post #262
cvhashim wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I scoff and roll my eyes at individuals who argue that tech is a meritocracy when discrimination between countrymen is happening even in companies like Google.

From what I can tell, tech IS a meritocracy. As long as you have the money and/or connections to get into the tech scene.

I saw an article about one of Dan Gilbert's spawn who claimed he started his company from nothing.

Dan Gilbert is the 69th wealthiest person on the planet. It would be a waste of time and money for him to walk across a street to get a free car.

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