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Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

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Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#291

Post by dudul »

Loughla wrote: post #259
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For people who discuss this with Indian co-workers - don't be surprised if they find this bizarre or far fetched. For most upper caste folks, it appears as if the caste system doesn't exist because they've never been at the receiving end of it. A little bit like the class system in the United States (or France) eh :-)

I'm not sure why you're being downvoted - maybe it's the flippant response? The message is correct, though. The caste system in India sounds exactly like the class system in the US, only more formalized. In my area, there absolutely are surnames that you can associate with 'those' people, and who are, in my experience, passed over for jobs. Maybe it's my ignorance, but doesn't a caste system whereby you are exposed t…

I wouldn't say it sounds "exactly" like they are the same.

At least in theory, your income reflects your work and is not set for life, while a "caste system" is usually unescapable. And yes, of course being born in a wealthy family gives you privileges but I don't see anything wrong with people working hard to provide for their descendants.

I understand that it breaks down in practice where wealth attracts wealth, but while I would say they are comparable, I wouldn't call them exactly the same.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#292

Post by flowerlad »

zapdrive wrote: post #260
shasts wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you say that? Would you imagine separate hospital rooms based on religion? It happened couple of months ago. https://scroll.in/latest/959274/covid-19-separate-wards-for-... If they are not allowed to live in the same quarter and be in the same hospital rooms, it is not hard to imagine segregation in universities too. https://www.economist.com/asia/2020/07/23/even-as-india-urba... It is not fair to call some…

I'm calling them a liar, because they ARE lying. I have had 7 years of college in India and not even once seen a students caste listed on any notice board. What i HAVE seen is their "quota", and there are many quotas: caste based, sports quota (for athletes), freedom fighter quota etc.

See story about blind men describing an elephant. I fully believe you when you say you have haver seen this. But that doesn't mean he hasn't seen it. India is large and diverse, and the experience of someone from one corner of India may not match the experience of someone from another corner.

“The frustrating thing about India is that whatever you can rightly say about India, the opposite is also true.” — Joan Robinson, the great Cambridge economist.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#293

Post by ponker »

zapdrive wrote: post #260
shasts wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you say that? Would you imagine separate hospital rooms based on religion? It happened couple of months ago. https://scroll.in/latest/959274/covid-19-separate-wards-for-... If they are not allowed to live in the same quarter and be in the same hospital rooms, it is not hard to imagine segregation in universities too. https://www.economist.com/asia/2020/07/23/even-as-india-urba... It is not fair to call some…

I'm calling them a liar, because they ARE lying. I have had 7 years of college in India and not even once seen a students caste listed on any notice board. What i HAVE seen is their "quota", and there are many quotas: caste based, sports quota (for athletes), freedom fighter quota etc.

I have been on this earth for 40 years and I’ve visited 30+ countries and not once, NOT ONCE, have I ever seen a woodpecker. David Attenborough is lying.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#294

Post by [deleted] »

zapdrive wrote: post #217

This is an alarmist piece of shit written by someone trying to push a propaganda. Living in India, I can tell you who is the much much much marginalized group today: poor "upper caste" families. The lower castes have reservations (quotas) almost everywhere, from educational institutions to govt job, to elected representatives. They don't even have to pay any fees (at least in the state where I grew up: Punjab). The p…

[deleted]

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#295

Post by tomp »

cvhashim wrote: post #152
mcv wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important that companies are aware of this, take complaints seriously, inform their Indian employees that this is not acceptable, explain where and how to report this, and offer training to overcome these prejudices. And have clear sanctions: if someone does discriminate against lower-caste colleagues, and especially when they abuse their power against them (by denying promotion, keeping them away from prestigio…

This is why I scoff and roll my eyes at individuals who argue that tech is a meritocracy when discrimination between countrymen is happening even in companies like Google.

Nobody argues that tech is a meritocracy. Meritocracy is just an ideal, just like freedom, equality and defensive driving; it’s worth striving towards but you cannot ever reach it (and if you think you’ve reached it, you’ll inevitably start falling behind).

Having said that, it’s one of the most meritocratic industries; do you know any billionaire doctors or lawyers that are college dropouts?

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#296

Post by daniellarusso »

zarkov99 wrote: post #235
x3ro wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fairly terrible take for a number of reasons, but let's assume good faith and indulge this. * What makes you think that, at any point, lower caste people had an on-average lower IQ? The same has been said for plenty of minorities that have been historically discriminated against, such as people of color and women, because opressors are in control of the narrative and see themselves as superior * What does "…

I assure you I am in good faith, I understand the topic is sensitive, but I don't know what in my comment would suggest I am in bad faith. I think it is likely that there are differences in IQ between the castes, just as there are other physical differences, and that the higher caste would have on average higher IQ since IQ is a decent predictor of social economic success in most contexts. Perhaps people familiar wit…

Your comment reminds me of the ‘Jewish Problems’ math exam.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1110.1556

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#297

Post by screye »

eqtn wrote: post #144
mrweasel wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity: Could an Indian of a lower caste change their name, or be named differently at birth, as to "fake" their way into a different caste?

During the previous discussions some has mentioned that they converted to a different religion

Both Christianity and Islam observe upper and lower castes in India.

What's worse is the discrimination they face sees almost no recognition, since on paper neither of those religions acknowledge caste.

A short look - https://theprint.in/opinion/indias-muslim-community-under-a-...

> 85% of the Muslim representatives in the Parliamentary House are from the 15% (ashraf) upper caste. (PARETO!)

A detailed look at it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8_6ryRZcU0

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#298

Post by tomp »

signal11 wrote: post #170
_jgdh wrote: post #80

For people who discuss this with Indian co-workers - don't be surprised if they find this bizarre or far fetched. For most upper caste folks, it appears as if the caste system doesn't exist because they've never been at the receiving end of it. Most people (me included) would be tempted to say - I've never discriminated, I've never seen it happen in front of me, I'm confident none of my friends would do it so therefo…

It’s not bizarre or far-fetched at all. Just a couple weeks ago (!) a woman named Rashmi Agochiya posted some astonishingly vile rants about Dalits on Facebook. Here’s a tweet with some of the comments she posted: https://twitter.com/ahariharan/status/1304042539238846464?s=... This lady has now deleted or hidden her social media accounts, but she seems to lives and work in the Midwest.

Is doxxing OK on HN?

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#299

Post by zarkov99 »

Loughla wrote: post #270
zarkov99 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is reproductive selection in that people from higher castes will tend to mate with people from higher castes and vice-versa.

The implication is that, inherently, higher caste individuals were more gifted than lower castes, and that breeding over the years selected for those traits. You're confusing inherent trait with sociologically applied traits. In other words, there is no reason to assume there would be selective reproduction for ANY single trait in any of the castes, because your birth into those castes is random and meaningless. Unle…

I am not an evolutionary biologist so please excuse and correct any mistakes if you can. Lets assume there are some physical differences between the castes. These differences would have been brought into existence because at some point the respective populations were isolated and living under different sets of evolutionary pressures. If, over time, you remove physical isolation but replace it with cultural taboos against inter-breeding then the effect of these ancestral pressures can be preserved. Does that make sense?

It seems to me the real issue here is our inability to reckon with the fact that IQ is just another adaptation. If we were talking about a less central trait, say hair color, the down votes, insults and the flagging of the post would seem ridiculous, even though the exact same reasoning would apply,

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#300

Post by geofft »

secondcoming wrote: post #269
cvhashim wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I scoff and roll my eyes at individuals who argue that tech is a meritocracy when discrimination between countrymen is happening even in companies like Google.

But don't candidates for Google jobs have to jump through several tedious rounds of interview? How likely is it that there's going to be a snobby Indian in each of those rounds who gets to veto a candidate?

1. Companies like Google tend to want hiring approval to be unanimous or close to unanimous - the more rounds of approval you have, the more likely one person can derail it. (Not to mention team matching, SVP approval, etc.)

2. With enough interviews of enough candidates, this still leaves you with a statistical bias in aggregate, even if it's possible for one candidate to avoid biased interviewers. (The converse of course, is that the experience for a single candidate is quite often worse than the median experience.)

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