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Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

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Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#251

Post by thatfrenchguy »

_jgdh wrote: post #80

For people who discuss this with Indian co-workers - don't be surprised if they find this bizarre or far fetched. For most upper caste folks, it appears as if the caste system doesn't exist because they've never been at the receiving end of it. Most people (me included) would be tempted to say - I've never discriminated, I've never seen it happen in front of me, I'm confident none of my friends would do it so therefo…

> For people who discuss this with Indian co-workers - don't be surprised if they find this bizarre or far fetched. For most upper caste folks, it appears as if the caste system doesn't exist because they've never been at the receiving end of it.

A little bit like the class system in the United States (or France) eh :-)

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#252

Post by mywittyname »

bluGill wrote: post #225
mywittyname wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point, wouldn't it be difficult for people to tell? A person who grew up outside of India will only have a passing understanding of this nuance anyway, because they would not have been regularly exposed to the other group, so their entire understanding will be from what is passed to them by their parents. And the next generation will have next to zero understanding. Plus, those nuances will probably get erase…

Maybe. The slave class in the US was in theory gone by 1870 (I don't care to look up the end of the civil war. 150 years latter a lot of people still know who is a descendant of that class. Somehow, something, fueled that through several generations.

Yeah, but it was pretty obvious who were the former slaves. There was no "nuance" about it.

When the tell-tale signs aren't physical, but small, subtle difference, they are easier to erase. You can change your name, religion, what you eat, and how you talk. So if those are the signs of your ancestors' caste, they probably won't last for generations in the west unless there's a conscious effort to preserve those distinctions.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#253

Post by nullsense »

brazzy wrote: post #127
nullsense wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's bad if runs rampantly forever as eventually someone nefarious (which is more people than you might think) accumulates too much power and turns large swathes of society into a machine that benefits only them to everyone's detriment. But at the same time it seems the pursuit of wealth engenders risk taking that brings about benefits for large swathes of society and turns society into a machine that constan…

>I think it's bad if runs rampantly forever as eventually someone nefarious (which is more people than you might think) accumulates too much power and turns large swathes of society into a machine that benefits only them to everyone's detriment. It's bad longe before it gets to that point, just less obvious. > But at the same time it seems the pursuit of wealth engenders risk taking that brings about benefits for lar…

>That doesn't sound healthy at all because it represents an unneccessarily huge disruption

It's no different than you or I dying, just on a much bigger scale. It's a huge disruption, sure, but that's sort of the point. Civilizations come and go, as do the people in them. There are just too many variables for things to be able to persist in a stable state in perpetuity.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#254

Post by ThrustVectoring »

coldtea wrote: post #59

Of course, how/when would lower-caste get the opportunies to study and/or immigrate as easily?

The article makes basically the same point - over 90% of immigration from India to the United States is of upper class Indians.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#255

Post by titanomachy »

x3ro wrote: post #198
zarkov99 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is reproductive selection in that people from higher castes will tend to mate with people from higher castes and vice-versa.

This is a fairly terrible take for a number of reasons, but let's assume good faith and indulge this. * What makes you think that, at any point, lower caste people had an on-average lower IQ? The same has been said for plenty of minorities that have been historically discriminated against, such as people of color and women, because opressors are in control of the narrative and see themselves as superior * What does "…

I appreciate that you presume good faith. I really believe the best way to address flawed racial arguments is by refuting in the open rather than downvoting to oblivion.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#256

Post by edmundsauto »

zarkov99 wrote: post #235
x3ro wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fairly terrible take for a number of reasons, but let's assume good faith and indulge this. * What makes you think that, at any point, lower caste people had an on-average lower IQ? The same has been said for plenty of minorities that have been historically discriminated against, such as people of color and women, because opressors are in control of the narrative and see themselves as superior * What does "…

I assure you I am in good faith, I understand the topic is sensitive, but I don't know what in my comment would suggest I am in bad faith. I think it is likely that there are differences in IQ between the castes, just as there are other physical differences, and that the higher caste would have on average higher IQ since IQ is a decent predictor of social economic success in most contexts. Perhaps people familiar wit…

If your primary evidence is results-based, why do you assume it's genetics instead of situational? My assumption would be that higher caste students have more opportunities for proper nutrition, education, etc.

Looking at babies adopted into another caste, or people marrying across castes, would help shed some light. But it doesn't seem reasonable that 5k years of caste systems would have such an impact on IQ.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#257

Post by secondcoming »

_jgdh wrote: post #140
notacoward wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you say rings very true to me. Most Indians are very reluctant to talk about this. Of several that became friends when I worked with a team in BLR, only one became close enough that we could discuss it. He himself was from one of the very highest sub-castes (which he taught me was trivially knowable from his surname) but very enlightened. I was shocked to discover that all but two or three out of about fif…

I've never had any trouble discussing this with European and American colleagues or owning up to my own privilege. But I can see how many Indians would find it awkward to talk about, especially if they think that the caste system is on it's way out because things are better than they used to be. Some might feel that discussing it with non-Indians puts India in a bad light. To which I say, it's not me who's painting I…

I reckon most foreigners would already be aware of the existence of India's caste system, but not in the intricacies of how it manifests itself in everyday Indian life.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#258

Post by bluGill »

flashyfaffe2 wrote: post #191

Being quite ignorant upon this topic, but witnessed sneaky behaviour in my company ( emails with with courtesy sentences systematically missing) I wad wondering to which degree this could explain why India is lagging behind China? Any thoughts?

Is India really lagging? I don't trust China's numbers, but I also don't know anything about the real situation there. Both countries are developing fast, and that often means that the reality of the situation isn't reflected in the numbers for years.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#259

Post by Loughla »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #251
_jgdh wrote: post #80

For people who discuss this with Indian co-workers - don't be surprised if they find this bizarre or far fetched. For most upper caste folks, it appears as if the caste system doesn't exist because they've never been at the receiving end of it. Most people (me included) would be tempted to say - I've never discriminated, I've never seen it happen in front of me, I'm confident none of my friends would do it so therefo…

> For people who discuss this with Indian co-workers - don't be surprised if they find this bizarre or far fetched. For most upper caste folks, it appears as if the caste system doesn't exist because they've never been at the receiving end of it. A little bit like the class system in the United States (or France) eh :-)

I'm not sure why you're being downvoted - maybe it's the flippant response? The message is correct, though.

The caste system in India sounds exactly like the class system in the US, only more formalized. In my area, there absolutely are surnames that you can associate with 'those' people, and who are, in my experience, passed over for jobs.

Maybe it's my ignorance, but doesn't a caste system whereby you are exposed to more privileges simply due to your birth sound exactly like a class system based on income whereby you are exposed to privilege simply because of your birth (because of your parents' income)?

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#260

Post by zapdrive »

shasts wrote: post #239
zapdrive wrote: post #223

> My college fucking put the caste next to people's names on notice boards for things like seating arrangements for an exam. You are lying. The colleges never do that, once the admissions are done. Yes, during entrance exams and results, they list the "quota" under which the student is seeking admission. If you don't want to have Scheduled Caste listed against your name, don't seek admission under SC quota.

Why would you say that? Would you imagine separate hospital rooms based on religion? It happened couple of months ago. https://scroll.in/latest/959274/covid-19-separate-wards-for-... If they are not allowed to live in the same quarter and be in the same hospital rooms, it is not hard to imagine segregation in universities too. https://www.economist.com/asia/2020/07/23/even-as-india-urba... It is not fair to call some…

I'm calling them a liar, because they ARE lying. I have had 7 years of college in India and not even once seen a students caste listed on any notice board. What i HAVE seen is their "quota", and there are many quotas: caste based, sports quota (for athletes), freedom fighter quota etc.
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