I wanted to offer another perspective for this trend: Many states in India, especially in the South, have affirmative action policies that make it really hard for these people to find good jobs or colleges in India. So they head out and prosper in the US.
Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
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Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
#52[flagged]
> Majority of them are privileged right wing bigots
That's amazing that you've met the majority of them. Did you write it up?
Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
#53The core issue in market heavy economies is that people with money make money and everyone else doesn't. Being smart and hard working and having poor parents means you will be poor. Being dumb and lazy with rich parents means you will be rich. Maybe with 3 or 4 full generations of nothing but hard work and luck you might make it up from working to middle class. Maybe. This is never really discussed directly. Only usi…
One of the main human drives in life is to provide for their children. Why shouldn't you be able to spend all the resources you can to give your kids advantage? What I find curious about this discussion, which often occurs when people discuss what advantages are fair and unfair, estate tax and the like, is that they perceive each human being as a completely independent actor. Whereas for me, at least, it's more natur…
In these countries, what survives more than anything else is political connections. If your family has the right friends you can do well, even after big setbacks.
Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
#54The core issue in market heavy economies is that people with money make money and everyone else doesn't. Being smart and hard working and having poor parents means you will be poor. Being dumb and lazy with rich parents means you will be rich. Maybe with 3 or 4 full generations of nothing but hard work and luck you might make it up from working to middle class. Maybe. This is never really discussed directly. Only usi…
100% agree but you should acknowledge the survivorship bias that skews perception away from what you’re asserting. Some people get lucky with everything falling in place while being poor or middle class and get rocketed to upper class. In any case the game is so rigged in a deterministic fashion.
Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
#55The core issue in market heavy economies is that people with money make money and everyone else doesn't. Being smart and hard working and having poor parents means you will be poor. Being dumb and lazy with rich parents means you will be rich. Maybe with 3 or 4 full generations of nothing but hard work and luck you might make it up from working to middle class. Maybe. This is never really discussed directly. Only usi…
One of the main human drives in life is to provide for their children. Why shouldn't you be able to spend all the resources you can to give your kids advantage? What I find curious about this discussion, which often occurs when people discuss what advantages are fair and unfair, estate tax and the like, is that they perceive each human being as a completely independent actor. Whereas for me, at least, it's more natur…
I'm not sure why you interpreted the comment you are replying to as an attack on the actions of rich people instead of a complaint about societies failure to provide opportunities to poor people.
Perhaps because you know those two things are linked?
Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
#56The core issue in market heavy economies is that people with money make money and everyone else doesn't. Being smart and hard working and having poor parents means you will be poor. Being dumb and lazy with rich parents means you will be rich. Maybe with 3 or 4 full generations of nothing but hard work and luck you might make it up from working to middle class. Maybe. This is never really discussed directly. Only usi…
It's frequently brought up in radical leftist discourse* (marxism, anarchism, etc…) or even center-left discourse (social democracy, social liberalism, etc…).
AFAICT it seems to be taboo outside these circles.
* I should mention that many people make big point that you shouldn't use economic points like this to ignore things like racism, i.e.: while racism intersects with economics you can't treat it like it's the same problem.
Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
#57The core issue in market heavy economies is that people with money make money and everyone else doesn't. Being smart and hard working and having poor parents means you will be poor. Being dumb and lazy with rich parents means you will be rich. Maybe with 3 or 4 full generations of nothing but hard work and luck you might make it up from working to middle class. Maybe. This is never really discussed directly. Only usi…
This. "Oh look at those poor backward indians!!" Well, most of the rich people I know had rich parents. If you can live with your parents while building your company or they gift you a few thousand dollars, that's often the make or break factor that saves your ass when pivoting a few times.
I've always thought it's that last point you touch on, that's most important.
There are mechanisms (and we can discuss their effectiveness) that try to balance the playing field in provision of opportunity - but there's a huge gap in "provision to cope with failure"
e.g. Two people graduate with equal abilities and are offered an opportunity to found a start-up. One of those people knows his parents can cover rent/food if things don't go to plan, and the other will be homeless (or maybe more likely would have accumulate personal debt, or leave the city and move back to parents). One of those people is more likely to be able to take that risk and therefore more likely to reap a reward.
I'm not even sure I can think of a fair way to level this.
Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
#58So... They nicely fit in with the upper-caste Americans. As long as you have a system where you make some "upper-caste" universities so expensive that only upper-caste people can attend them, you will keep the caste system alive. This is why education should not be privatized, there are no equal opportunities within the US as well as in India. It's all about what family you are born into.
The whole caste system is also very much alive in the US. Things like good education, crime-free neighborhoods and good healthcare are all for the rich(er).
Edit: This: "Except, this time, it is happening in the US tech industry, a place that people normally associate with egalitarianism and a thirst for talent regardless of colour, race, religion, or any other creed." is not really what I associate the tech industry with either. I feel it is is still very white male (like me) dominated.
Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
#59Of course, how/when would lower-caste get the opportunies to study and/or immigrate as easily?
Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians
#60The core issue in market heavy economies is that people with money make money and everyone else doesn't. Being smart and hard working and having poor parents means you will be poor. Being dumb and lazy with rich parents means you will be rich. Maybe with 3 or 4 full generations of nothing but hard work and luck you might make it up from working to middle class. Maybe. This is never really discussed directly. Only usi…
One of the main human drives in life is to provide for their children. Why shouldn't you be able to spend all the resources you can to give your kids advantage? What I find curious about this discussion, which often occurs when people discuss what advantages are fair and unfair, estate tax and the like, is that they perceive each human being as a completely independent actor. Whereas for me, at least, it's more natur…
I saw a remark by Miltom Friedman, basically he think beiing able to inherit your wealth to the next generaltion is one of the biggest drivers of the economy.