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Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#191

Post by cblconfederate »

MrPowers wrote: post #142
cblconfederate wrote: post #97

This doesnt seem to be controversial. And TBH i believe the airbnb-airlines-instagram tourism boom party is over. Post covid, with rising unemployment, remote work, and relocation to more livable places, people aren't going to be chasing cheap flights for more selfies.

I'm not sure the tourism boom is over. Addressing your specific points: * rising unemployment - overall employment is falling, but most digital nomad jobs haven't been impacted * remote work - this makes it easier to digital nomad (e.g. a NYC dweller that travels for the winter) * relocation to more livable places - Suppose you relocate from SF to a more "livable" place like Tucson, not sure that'll reduce demand to…

Nice, but the vast business of airbnb is for tourism. There will surely be a sizeable market for the remote working population but it's tiny compared to the tourism boom of 2000-2020.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#192

Post by rsynnott »

vertis wrote: post #189
rsynnott wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hotels are not acceptable because they lack kitchens and laundries (and laptop friendly workspaces). You're looking for an aparthotel (generally purpose-built building with special planning designed for this use-case). Common in many European cities, at least.

I've stayed at plenty of aparthotels, and they just do not compare to an actual apartment though.

Sure, but it's better for a hotel for your case, so it's an option if major cities succeed in abolishing holiday lets (which certainly seems plausible in the medium term).

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#193

Post by mtoner23 »

RestlessMind wrote: post #138

> Short-stay specialist Airbnb said it welcomed a decision that "will go to help in clarifying the rules". Why does that leave me with a feeling that Airbnb now considers itself to be entrenched enough that they are welcoming government regulations which will prevent upstarts from competing with it?

Airbnb has been open about its willingness to work with regulators. They are honest about the fact that they are in a grey area and would like regulators to define the rules. but they also push back to say look, Airbnb is providing a service that is missed in the market so don't be quick to just ban it because hotels hate us. For reference: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/airbnb-want-to-be-regulated...

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#194

Post by novok »

baud147258 wrote: post #62
murbard2 wrote: post #54

What's in a title? "Paris hails victory". No. The city government of Paris hails a victory. Whether that's a victory for the city and its inhabitants is a very different matter.

I'd count that as the win for the inhabitants if that can slow down the increase in price

Paris could also allow higher buildings in its core too... AirBNB is insignificant in prices compared to that measure.

Banning AirBNB is like banning plastic bags in grocery stores while not do the real things to fight global warming. It's a distraction from the real causes of high rent in Paris.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#195

Post by helen___keller »

russellendicott wrote: post #117
helen___keller wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems like there is a lot of problems baked into zoning Talk about an understatement. The use of zoning, as far as I can tell, became a frenzy to use this tool to solve every pet problem. Lack of parking, businesses too loud near residences, blocking light, enforcing neighborhood character or feel, keeping "those people" out of your neighborhood, etc. The end result is that zoning is just paralysis for urban dev…

I believe Houston, TX has no zoning laws either. You can find high rises right next to houses and you can have an auto repair shop in the middle of a suburban neighborhood.

That's true (houston gets a lot of the same restrictions in other ways, but indeed not from zoning), my point of view was more from the standard Big Expensive Coastal City like the one I live in

https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/2020/01/09/no-zoning-in-Ho...

> The story of Houston’s land-use policies is a lot more complicated than “no zoning.” In reality, Houston is a big mixture of ordinances, policies, tactics by neighborhoods, and independent efforts by nonprofits, all of which play a role in determining how land is used. Whether or not the lack of zoning and the use of these other tools add up to a more equitable city or a city where the affluent are protected is open to debate.

[...]

> 3. A complicated development code that contains everything you’d expect except use zoning — and, in some cases, density and height restrictions as well — and drives applicants crazy just like the development code in many other cities.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#196

Post by analog31 »

jdeibele wrote: post #166

As a family of two adults and 3 children we've very much appreciated being able to stay in places where we can cook for ourselves, be able to do laundry, and have space to spread out a bit. In the US, there are chains like Embassy Suites that work well for families because they have two bedrooms separated by a living/cooking area. The fact that they're typically far outside downtown matters a lot less because we've r…

This is how my family prefers to travel too. Given our preferences for mountain hiking, we've found apartments to rent during the summer in ski resort towns. Those towns are already set up to handle that kind of rental, and we were doing it long before AirBnB was ever a thing.

Also, longer term rentals made more sense. We could get up and leave at 6 AM for a day long hike without also having to take care of checking out of a hotel and packing our car first.

I can't understand why anybody in their right mind would subject themselves to taking kids to a restaurant. Not only is the expensive food typically wasted, but it takes half of your waking hours getting them in and out of those accommodations.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#197

Post by ballenf »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #177
hinkley wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall one summer probably freshman year in college, we went to the Wisconsin Dells. I was busy flirting with ideas about how I would start my life, so certain topics were on my mind that hadn't thought too hard about before or since. This whole town is tourism. I wonder what it must be like to live here? I felt vaguely uncomfortable the entire time, until I felt really uncomfortable, in ways that only an angsty 19…

>She's about my age, and I'm wondering, is this really what she wants to be doing? Or is this all there is, here? This applies to probably 90% of the people in the world. The whole follow your passions thing is an upper middle class developed world thing.

> The whole follow your passions thing is an upper middle class developed world thing.

I'm convinced it's worse advice if you can afford to follow it without tremendous sacrifice or time to save up for it. If you can't afford to do it without long-term planning and commitment, then it's maybe good advice.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#198

Post by swarnie_ »

kofejnik wrote: post #133
aloukissas wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, most of the owners of Airbnb and other short-term rentals in Greece are non-Greek citizens who got a "golden passport" in the recent years, buying off a huge chunk of the apartment inventory in Athens and elsewhere. Re: couch-surfing -- probably a bad metaphor on my end. I meant the "rent a room in a house" model that Airbnb offers.

> Unfortunately, most of the owners of Airbnb and other short-term rentals in Greece are non-Greek citizens who got a "golden passport" in the recent years, buying off a huge chunk of the apartment inventory in Athens and elsewhere. why is this unfortunate? I thought investment is good for economy?

Greece have been bought, sold and bought again. Economic slaves of Europe at this point.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#199

Post by ryandrake »

yardie wrote: post #42
joshgev wrote: post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

I own in a building that used to be rampant with AirBnb rentals. Once we had enough owners to vote on new bylaws we reduced short term rentals dramatically. From do as you want, to 30 days, and now 6 months. I used to not mind Airbnb and was a long time proponent. But the edge cases aren't even edge cases anymore. Just within the last few days one of the more popular buildings in our neighborhood had a shooting. The…

I'm glad it worked out for you, but this is one of the main reasons I escaped condo life and will never, ever go back to living in one or in any place with a HOA. The idea that Nosey Karen 5 doors down can actually vote to prevent me from doing something legal in a house I own... well, it's just not for me.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#200

Post by andrewzah »

mtoner23 wrote: post #193
RestlessMind wrote: post #138

> Short-stay specialist Airbnb said it welcomed a decision that "will go to help in clarifying the rules". Why does that leave me with a feeling that Airbnb now considers itself to be entrenched enough that they are welcoming government regulations which will prevent upstarts from competing with it?

Airbnb has been open about its willingness to work with regulators. They are honest about the fact that they are in a grey area and would like regulators to define the rules. but they also push back to say look, Airbnb is providing a service that is missed in the market so don't be quick to just ban it because hotels hate us. For reference: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/airbnb-want-to-be-regulated...

Okay, then ban it (at least until tight regulations are enforced well) because locals hate it too. :-)

It guess it's a bit hypocritical for me to say that as I've used airbnb to live in and visit various countries, but I also have seen how inconsiderate and downright rude short term renters can be.

It's good that airbnb wants to be regulated, but bigger businesses can easily deal with tight regulations, whereas it's much harder for small newcomers. -Obviously- Airbnb will prefer policies that gain it public favor while also making it harder for competitors.

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