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Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#41

Post by cortesoft »

legitster wrote: post #18

Airbnb listings are associated with a fairly small but noticeable increase in rents: https://hbr.org/2019/04/research-when-airbnb-listings-in-a-c... But the question I always wonder is what's so special about hotels that they get to build dozens or hundreds of apartments but don't have to put them on the market? It seems like there is a lot of problems baked into zoning, and it doesn't seem fair to punish Airbnb owne…

Hotels have staff that supervise guests. They often have their own security, and have a lot of regulations on what they can and can't do.

Airbnb units often don't have anyone supervising their visitors.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#42

Post by yardie »

joshgev wrote: post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

I own in a building that used to be rampant with AirBnb rentals. Once we had enough owners to vote on new bylaws we reduced short term rentals dramatically. From do as you want, to 30 days, and now 6 months. I used to not mind Airbnb and was a long time proponent. But the edge cases aren't even edge cases anymore.

Just within the last few days one of the more popular buildings in our neighborhood had a shooting. The owners and tenants are absolutely pissed. Because at $3000+/month this is not how they wanted to live. That building management company was fired and a new one brought in. With armed security now.

The straw for me was the variability of the owners. If I get a substandard hotel room I call the desk and get moved to another suite. If I have a substandard Airbnb I only get a refund. I'm still left scrambling to find new, last minute accommodations.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#43

Post by stingraycharles »

joshgev wrote: post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

This type is of stuff is why cities have zoning, and I feel like all this Airbnb discussion is just people realizing why things were like they were.

As a tourist who occasionally used Airbnb myself, of course I enjoy it but it’s not like I couldn’t enjoy a hotel. I completely understand why it’s bad for communities. There must be some middle ground to be reached here, but when in doubt, I would err on the side of communities, not the Airbnb property owners; the negative impact it has on communities is far worse than the positive impact it has on tourism.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#44

Post by bradlys »

raziel2p wrote: post #23
legitster wrote: post #18

Airbnb listings are associated with a fairly small but noticeable increase in rents: https://hbr.org/2019/04/research-when-airbnb-listings-in-a-c... But the question I always wonder is what's so special about hotels that they get to build dozens or hundreds of apartments but don't have to put them on the market? It seems like there is a lot of problems baked into zoning, and it doesn't seem fair to punish Airbnb owne…

Hotels don't get built on ground designated for residential, surely?

I lived right next to a hotel. So, maybe not literally on the same ground but they can be built right next to your place.

I would never get an apartment next to a hotel. The idling diesel buses were obnoxious. Along with all the people who would smoke outside and yell and scream. Kinda ridiculous.

I haven’t had to live next to a permanent airbnb apartment though.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#45

Post by kube-system »

lapetitejort wrote: post #19
weego wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a healthy housing market like the one I own a rental property in, long-term rental is a margin business while you have mortgage and taking to account wear and tear etc and encourages properties being kept in family friendly sizes and year round accommodation for people who need to live and work locally. The airbnb model allows you to have much larger margins while the property empty for periods of time, promotes s…

I would support Airbnb if it encouraged the couch-surfing model more. As in, the owners live on the property full time and have an extra room or couch they'll willing to lend out, with extra amenities to make it worth some amount of money. Deviating from this quickly devolves into the current situation.

I am actually surprised how many properties there are like that on Airbnb, given that everyone I know immediately filters them out.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#47

Post by dannyw »

littleweep wrote: post #10
lhnz wrote: post #9

I wonder if this has a positive or negative effect on tourism within Paris?

I feel like someone first decides on a destination and then decides on where to stay. I don't think a sizable portion of travelers prioritize staying in an apartment or private home over visiting Paris.

Here’s an example: roadtrip rd across the west coast. Decided where to stay and rest based on Airbnb availability.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#48

Post by raziel2p »

bradlys wrote: post #44
raziel2p wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hotels don't get built on ground designated for residential, surely?

I lived right next to a hotel. So, maybe not literally on the same ground but they can be built right next to your place. I would never get an apartment next to a hotel. The idling diesel buses were obnoxious. Along with all the people who would smoke outside and yell and scream. Kinda ridiculous. I haven’t had to live next to a permanent airbnb apartment though.

That's a fair point but a very different problem.

It's easy for a city to limit the number of hotels being built to limit the number of annoyed residents like you, if they want to.

It's not as easy to limit the number of apartments being used as airbnbs, because at time of sale or even city zoning, they're just regular apartments.

So it's not about whether one is more annoying than the other, it's about controlling the amount of each.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#49

Post by vertis »

joshgev wrote: post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

As a digital nomad I live my life in AirBnBs (with the exception of the occasional hotel and housesit). Over the last 2 years I have stayed in ~20-30 AirBnBs in Asia and Europe (we were going to do the Americas this year...alas).

Without AirBnB I don't know how we would be able to live as digital nomads. Hotels are not acceptable because they lack kitchens and laundries (and laptop friendly workspaces).

I understand that we're not the normal tenants, we stay for weeks to months, recycle when possible and rarely if ever make any noise that would irritate other tenants. But I like to think we're not detrimental (I understand this is a little #NotAllMen).

Interestingly, AirBnB is far from a perfect solution for us either (some of the AirBnBs we've stayed at have been absolutely shit). But one of the things the we value as digital nomads is living as the locals live (or as close as possible). Going to the supermarket, living outside the old town.

As far a bad tenants go, before we left Australia we owned an apartment in a fairly average apartment block. There was a council flat within the block, and the tenant was nothing but trouble. Leaving rubbish and furniture around the property. Drinking to excess. Having raging arguments with associates. It does not take AirBnB to have problems with other parties within an apartment block.

(None of this is necessarily negates what you say, just an interesting counter point)

Edit: I would love to know why people are downvoting?

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#50

Post by bradlys »

littleweep wrote: post #10
lhnz wrote: post #9

I wonder if this has a positive or negative effect on tourism within Paris?

I feel like someone first decides on a destination and then decides on where to stay. I don't think a sizable portion of travelers prioritize staying in an apartment or private home over visiting Paris.

Probably should speak for yourself.

We definitely look at the accommodations while looking at a place to travel to. If it’s too expensive, we won’t go. Airbnb is significantly less expensive than hotels for many places. We couldn’t even get a damn hotel when we tried to visit Rome. (Short of them being $300+/night, way out of our budget)

If the only thing available is extremely expensive hotels (especially if they’re not even giving you anything for that cost) then we skip on the location. We just don’t have the money for it.

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