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China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

reuters.com

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Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#271

Post by platinumrad »

smithza wrote: post #261
platinumrad wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hypocritical to focus on issues in your own country?

The BLM movement is important; I have no interest in distracting from this problem. Lebron was explicitly asked about the CCP and their human-rights abuses after an NBA manager unpopularly criticized the CCP. The NBA would rather not talk about the CCP and the manager was effectively shamed for doing so. Capitalism cannot look past the $$$. China makes up 10% of NBA revenue [1] [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nba-…

It's absolutely reasonable for NBA players to not want to comment on complicated issues that are outside of the scope of their political interests[1][2]. It would be nice to see the same humility in other aspects of our public discourse.

[1] https://www.radio.com/sports/nba/former-nba-star-anti-china-...

[2] https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2019/10/12/nb...

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#272

Post by medium_burrito »

free_rms wrote: post #157
oxymoran wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think they will stop with Tibet? The CCP wants China to be the new world hegemony. They think that their illiberal system is the only way and they want to spread it to every corner of the world. War is not the answer because it would be inconceivably horrific. But the world needs to stand up to China and stop putting up with their crap. Stop buying their crap. Start calling them out for their imperialism.

Citation? The US has a record of wanting to be hegemon and specifically wanting to export our ideology. China, not so much outside of their borders and immediate sea lanes. Are you just assuming they want to do so because that's what we do?

The US has a record of not wanting to get involved with anybody far away, until the rest of the world causes such a mess they have to get involved. Unless of course you think Nazis and Soviet Russia were no big deal. China is a nationalist ethno-state and they want to own Asia.

Honestly I think the best bet is we let Taiwan go nuclear. Oh, CCP says it will invade, but that's not really going to happen if they'll lose all their major cities.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#273

Post by yters »

magicsmoke wrote: post #250
yters wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we call out all our own flaws from the past and now reject colonialism additionally, our country was founded by people escaping religious persecution why are not right to call out others currently making our mistakes from the past?

Publicly calling out the flaws of colonialism but privately enjoying the benefits of colonialism exactly convincing. >additionally, our country was founded by people escaping religious persecution I'm assuming this refers to the US. The US criticizes its treatment of natives and how they were decimated as the US expanded west. But at the same time, it enjoys all the benefits from not having a large indigenous populat…

so you agree colonialism is wrong, but will not denounce modern colonialism because the usa eliminated indigenous people in the past? colonialism is only wrong if done by the us?

and if we need a pristine past to denounce modern injustice, then that is a recipe to accomodate every injustice that comes our way

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#274

Post by Aunche »

aww_dang wrote: post #130
coldtea wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. Yeah, kinda like Hawaii. (Not to mention Native Americans' lands, civilization, and culture). Or, well, Mexico. Sure, it's, "whataboutism". Which is an improvement on the our-shit-doesn't-smell-besides-that-was-back-a-while-ago-so-we-get-to-keep-it-now "Western perspective". Or…

Judging the past on the standards of the present isn't a productive line of reasoning. Using past mistakes to rationalize further atrocities is beyond regressive.

It's not that the US government suddenly decided to be nicer to Native Americans. Rather, they're no longer deemed to be a threat to the United States and barely have anything that can be forcibly taken. In an alternate universe where Native Americans had connections with Islamic extremists, Native American reservations would closely resemble Xinjiang. Buildings getting their windows smashed in is enough to call the National Guard, so I can't imagine what real domestic tension would do to the US.

100 years from now, Xinjiang will most likely be peaceful when the last traditional Uyghurs pass away, and China will no longer have to force assimilation. That doesn't absolve China of its wrongdoings today.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#275

Post by platinumrad »

foepys wrote: post #245
crocodiletears wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US could just extract a few key TSMC engineers, turn its facilities into a crater, and back out. I don't think anyone wants to start WWIII with China over an exiled Chinese government living on an island that's less than 200 miles from the Chinese mainland other than an occupied Taiwanese people. I'm not even certain that the US could land a force in the area, given China's investment in defensive missile install…

Appeasement didn't work back in the 1930s and won't work now. Let China take Taiwan and they'll probably look at Vietnam or even South Korea or Japan.

This is delusional Cold War "domino effect" thinking but somehow even stupider because there was at least some credibility to the idea that communism would be a popular enough ideology to be adopted in such a fashion. Please tell me why China would ever have any interest in invading and occupying any of those countries.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#276

Post by dimitrios1 »

bobbyz wrote: post #110
dimitrios1 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is some grade A+ projection over here. Han chauvinism was so bad that Mao Zedong drafted a party directive specifically to address it.

Please explain to me how its projection. Modern China's problem is the abundance of uneducated people. The racism mostly stemmed from ignorance. Same exact reason that when I visited Ecuador people pointed and stared. The wiki article doesn't even state that 'Han chauvinism' was 'bad'. It doesn't list a single incident of 'Han chauvisnism'. Do you know what the little red book is? You took the first result from googl…

> Do you know what the little red book is?

Yes, I do, in fact...

http://www.mzdbl.cn/maoxuan/maoxuan5-e/mswv5_25.htm

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#277

Post by luckylion »

chmod600 wrote: post #219
chillacy wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was reading an account from the Roman Empire about parents begrudgingly using the imperial language while their kids grew up completely “Roman”. Then I reflected that if you go back far enough we all have a great^N parent who was in this situation. Someone else in their reply mentioned Hawaii and the US but even Hawaii was unified by force by King Kamehameha. I’ve come to an uneasy acceptance of the fact that we’re…

"I’ve come to an uneasy acceptance of the fact that we’re all the conquerors and the conquered." We all have to accept the past. We don't need to accept that the future will be the same. There are many ways that different areas and cultures can share an assimilate. Trade, travel, multilingualism, federations, mutually-agreed democratic annexation, shared constitutions, diplomacy, immigration, intermarriage, etc. Coer…

> Coercion is not the only option.

Do you have examples of those alternatives, or are they theoretical?

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#278

Post by dagenleg »

aww_dang wrote: post #80
burlesona wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think the US alone has any appetite for a land war in China, nor does the rest of the world. They have such a huge population, it would be very, very hard to win a war like that. If they were to confront China directly, I would guess the US and the west are much more likely to take a containment approach like they did with the USSR.

1)From the historical perspective internal conflict within China would be the deciding factor. 2)India isn't dovish or shy about confronting China. 3)The PLA is comprised of mostly only-sons and hasn't been deployed in a real conflict.

> PLA is comprised of mostly only-sons and hasn't been deployed in a real conflict.

Sorry, did you forget the Korean war? Sure, Sino-Indian and Sino-Vietnamese wars were much smaller by comparison, but also very real conflicts.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#279

Post by crocodiletears »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #263
crocodiletears wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US could just extract a few key TSMC engineers, turn its facilities into a crater, and back out. I don't think anyone wants to start WWIII with China over an exiled Chinese government living on an island that's less than 200 miles from the Chinese mainland other than an occupied Taiwanese people. I'm not even certain that the US could land a force in the area, given China's investment in defensive missile install…

The US may not need to land a force there, just ensure that China can't. Make sure Taiwan has enough missiles, subs, mines, etc to repel any PLA landing force, making it prohibitively expensive and embarrassing for China to attempt.

That's true. I honestly think an out and out invasion of Taiwan is exceedingly unlikely, when the CCP has the latitude to exert decades of concentrate soft power to render Taiwan a functional vassal long before Chinese boots hit the ground.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#280

Post by Mizza »

foepys wrote: post #245
crocodiletears wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US could just extract a few key TSMC engineers, turn its facilities into a crater, and back out. I don't think anyone wants to start WWIII with China over an exiled Chinese government living on an island that's less than 200 miles from the Chinese mainland other than an occupied Taiwanese people. I'm not even certain that the US could land a force in the area, given China's investment in defensive missile install…

Appeasement didn't work back in the 1930s and won't work now. Let China take Taiwan and they'll probably look at Vietnam or even South Korea or Japan.

That's now how China works. It's a very different mentality - they _only_ care about China, specifically the boundaries of China defined by the "9-dash line."

The rest of the world will serve to feed 9-dash mainland China with raw materials (Africa) and loan repayments (Belt and Road). There is none of the "social justice" of Western imperialism, no interest in exporting Chinese values or ideology - there is only China.

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