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Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

bbc.co.uk

111–120 of 214 posts

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#111
post #90
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should compare city center prices before/after, where maybe 1/5 of flats is/was used for airbnb and similar short term rentals.

The thing is, way more flats, like at least 10x more, is/was used as offices. The issue is absolutely elsewhere, Airbnb has nearly no effect [here].

True that, it's hard to separate the effect of shift to home office, and other economic shifts due to sudden drop in tourism.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#112
post #42
post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

I own in a building that used to be rampant with AirBnb rentals. Once we had enough owners to vote on new bylaws we reduced short term rentals dramatically. From do as you want, to 30 days, and now 6 months. I used to not mind Airbnb and was a long time proponent. But the edge cases aren't even edge cases anymore. Just within the last few days one of the more popular buildings in our neighborhood had a shooting. The…

> Once we had enough owners to vote on new bylaws we reduced short term rentals dramatically. From do as you want, to 30 days, and now 6 months.

is this really a good thing? once you start banning rentals in the 1-6 month range, you are no longer just targeting tourists. you're also hurting folks without stable jobs who can't commit to a typical lease length.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#113
post #49
post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

As a digital nomad I live my life in AirBnBs (with the exception of the occasional hotel and housesit). Over the last 2 years I have stayed in ~20-30 AirBnBs in Asia and Europe (we were going to do the Americas this year...alas). Without AirBnB I don't know how we would be able to live as digital nomads. Hotels are not acceptable because they lack kitchens and laundries (and laptop friendly workspaces). I understand…

It's not hard to understand. If permanent housing is taken off the market for AirBnB usage, then the supply of housing for locals is reduced, thereby increasing the cost. Also, I'm going to guess most AirBnb rentals aren't paying the rental tax that most hotels do. (At least here in the US it's common to have a hotel tax).

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#114
post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

People rent airbnb's to do things at where they don't want to do it at their primary residence. Quality of guests have nothing to do with the noise/etc because that's the specific purpose that people rent airbnb's for - to host parties, do drugs, and basically trash the place.

> People rent airbnb's to do things at where they don't want to do it at their primary residence.

You're totally right. For example, I can't live in Barcelona from my house in Washington State so I'll go rent one there if I want that amenity.

Your claim that people mostly rent Airbnbs to host parties, do drugs, and trash houses requires a citation. I would not be surprised if less than 1/100 of 1% of Airbnb stays are for folks who aim to do any of what you claim.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#115
post #49
post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

As a digital nomad I live my life in AirBnBs (with the exception of the occasional hotel and housesit). Over the last 2 years I have stayed in ~20-30 AirBnBs in Asia and Europe (we were going to do the Americas this year...alas). Without AirBnB I don't know how we would be able to live as digital nomads. Hotels are not acceptable because they lack kitchens and laundries (and laptop friendly workspaces). I understand…

> It does not take AirBnB to have problems with other parties within an apartment block.

This is important to note. AirBnB is not the "cause" of the problem, but seems to make it easier to cause the problem. Shouldn't they just increase the guest liability?

I'm a strong proponent of "living like the locals" so hope that spirit of AirBnB does not fade away.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#116
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a digital nomad I live my life in AirBnBs (with the exception of the occasional hotel and housesit). Over the last 2 years I have stayed in ~20-30 AirBnBs in Asia and Europe (we were going to do the Americas this year...alas). Without AirBnB I don't know how we would be able to live as digital nomads. Hotels are not acceptable because they lack kitchens and laundries (and laptop friendly workspaces). I understand…

> But one of the things the we value as digital nomads is living as the locals live (or as close as possible). Nah, mate. Nomads living like locals is an oxymoron. It doesn’t come close. I wish Airbnb-ers would stop touting this. You haven’t seen restaurants come and go. You don’t know the intricacies of local culture and etiquette. If you do speak the language, you don’t speak the lingo. You have never fought with t…

great point. virtually all AirBnb users espousing "want to live life like the locals" are basically using coded language for "don't want to stay with the 'other' tourists" - as if they are not tourists themselves.

it may also mean that they don't want to pay the hotel prices they see, so in order to sustain their lifestyle financially, they'll find a cheaper place via Airbnb.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#117

Airbnb listings are associated with a fairly small but noticeable increase in rents: https://hbr.org/2019/04/research-when-airbnb-listings-in-a-c... But the question I always wonder is what's so special about hotels that they get to build dozens or hundreds of apartments but don't have to put them on the market? It seems like there is a lot of problems baked into zoning, and it doesn't seem fair to punish Airbnb owne…

> It seems like there is a lot of problems baked into zoning Talk about an understatement. The use of zoning, as far as I can tell, became a frenzy to use this tool to solve every pet problem. Lack of parking, businesses too loud near residences, blocking light, enforcing neighborhood character or feel, keeping "those people" out of your neighborhood, etc. The end result is that zoning is just paralysis for urban dev…

I believe Houston, TX has no zoning laws either. You can find high rises right next to houses and you can have an auto repair shop in the middle of a suburban neighborhood.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#118
post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

And Paris is one of the most touristic place on earth, so the pressure to convert long-term rentals in short-term rentals is extreme. Paris has been testing that detrimental effect for several years now. It is so lucrative that an economy on top of AirBnB, flourished. I do not know what is the right answer, but for a city like Paris, hotels are probably the most efficient way to deal with the flow of tourists. Maybe AirBnb in src location should buy outright some buildings and convert them in hotels , dedicated to short-term rentals ?

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#119
post #9

I wonder if this has a positive or negative effect on tourism within Paris?

I feel like someone first decides on a destination and then decides on where to stay. I don't think a sizable portion of travelers prioritize staying in an apartment or private home over visiting Paris.

I feel like someone first decides on a destination and then decides on where to stay.

That's true for me. I do use Airbnb, as I like to cook my own meals when traveling (dietary restrictions), but Airbnb availability has never been a major determinant of where I go. Recent trips have been 60-70% Airbnb, usually mixed within a vacation.

For Paris, I'd be fine either way. We used a hotel in London and Rome. Airbnb in Florence and Reykjavik.

Edit - both Florence and Reykjavik were apartments that very well could have been residential. Heart of downtown and all that. Neither were cheap, both were on par with mid-range hotels. Portree, Scotland was another home that likely was removed from long-term rental (or owner occupied) market.

Other Airbnb stays included St Micheals (MD, USA) in a historic home. Mt Rogers wilderness (VA, USA) in a purpose built tiny cabin. And outside Stornoway, Scotland in a crofter's cottage, where the owner lived in a new build home on the same site (and the rental was the original cottage). I don't feel like any of these would impact the local long-term rental market, but could be wrong.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#120
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a digital nomad I live my life in AirBnBs (with the exception of the occasional hotel and housesit). Over the last 2 years I have stayed in ~20-30 AirBnBs in Asia and Europe (we were going to do the Americas this year...alas). Without AirBnB I don't know how we would be able to live as digital nomads. Hotels are not acceptable because they lack kitchens and laundries (and laptop friendly workspaces). I understand…

> But one of the things the we value as digital nomads is living as the locals live (or as close as possible). Nah, mate. Nomads living like locals is an oxymoron. It doesn’t come close. I wish Airbnb-ers would stop touting this. You haven’t seen restaurants come and go. You don’t know the intricacies of local culture and etiquette. If you do speak the language, you don’t speak the lingo. You have never fought with t…

What is the alternative then? Live like tourists in hotels and never understand what local people care about?
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