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Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

bbc.co.uk

61–70 of 214 posts

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#61
post #2

Yeah, Prague politicians are also hailing victories and thanking the coronavirus. Meanwhile, housing prices are up 30%, but who cares about reality, it is Airbnb doing it and it's dead, yay!

You should compare city center prices before/after, where maybe 1/5 of flats is/was used for airbnb and similar short term rentals.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#62

What's in a title? "Paris hails victory". No. The city government of Paris hails a victory. Whether that's a victory for the city and its inhabitants is a very different matter.

I'd count that as the win for the inhabitants if that can slow down the increase in price

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#63

Airbnb listings are associated with a fairly small but noticeable increase in rents: https://hbr.org/2019/04/research-when-airbnb-listings-in-a-c... But the question I always wonder is what's so special about hotels that they get to build dozens or hundreds of apartments but don't have to put them on the market? It seems like there is a lot of problems baked into zoning, and it doesn't seem fair to punish Airbnb owne…

Hotels are high-density housing. Typically many floors, with many small units.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#64
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hotels have staff that supervise guests. They often have their own security, and have a lot of regulations on what they can and can't do. Airbnb units often don't have anyone supervising their visitors.

Hah, that's funny. I had a horrible night at a hotel in Ireland, where the room next door was partying and the attendant was just powerless to stop it (he tried).

So I'm sure you can imagine what happens in places where there isn't even an attendant to try, and the rest of the building is not other hotel guests having a potential lousy night but people's actual homes.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#65
post #6
post #3

I don't fall strongly on either side of these debates, but I'm kind of against the debate as a whole. I just don't think that trade offs between short stay rentals, even airbnb hotels, and rental housing has much of a win in it for renters even if advocates get everything they want. It seems like a marginal, symbolic issue that sucks up a lot of attention without the potential for meaningful results. Are bans on shor…

It’s not just housing prices. It’s community and neighborhood. People want to live in a neighborhood with actual people, not a decentralized hotel. I say this as someone who has done short term rentals in Paris—it was nice for me, but I can see how annoying it must be for residents.

People don't want to live in industrial areas, or fully commercial areas either.

That's what "zoning" is for.

Maybe the city should just designate a zone / neighborhood for short term rentals and call it a day.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#66
post #49
post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

As a digital nomad I live my life in AirBnBs (with the exception of the occasional hotel and housesit). Over the last 2 years I have stayed in ~20-30 AirBnBs in Asia and Europe (we were going to do the Americas this year...alas). Without AirBnB I don't know how we would be able to live as digital nomads. Hotels are not acceptable because they lack kitchens and laundries (and laptop friendly workspaces). I understand…

I'm pretty sure there is a lot of options other than Hotels that would cover your needs, that existed long before Airbnb.

Just to name a few you can stay in aparthotels , a common thing in almost every country, or you can just rent a regular apartment directly with the owner, instead of doing it through Airbnb.

IMO Airbnb does more bad than good and transform centric areas of big cities in amusement park for the tourist.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#67
post #49
post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

As a digital nomad I live my life in AirBnBs (with the exception of the occasional hotel and housesit). Over the last 2 years I have stayed in ~20-30 AirBnBs in Asia and Europe (we were going to do the Americas this year...alas). Without AirBnB I don't know how we would be able to live as digital nomads. Hotels are not acceptable because they lack kitchens and laundries (and laptop friendly workspaces). I understand…

Well said, I am similar. Ive traveled and lived in airbnbs for a total of 3 years, ive always tried to be a good neighbor. I despise hotels and love what airbnb built. I hope they can figure out a middle ground to make this work.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#68
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a healthy housing market like the one I own a rental property in, long-term rental is a margin business while you have mortgage and taking to account wear and tear etc and encourages properties being kept in family friendly sizes and year round accommodation for people who need to live and work locally. The airbnb model allows you to have much larger margins while the property empty for periods of time, promotes s…

I would support Airbnb if it encouraged the couch-surfing model more. As in, the owners live on the property full time and have an extra room or couch they'll willing to lend out, with extra amenities to make it worth some amount of money. Deviating from this quickly devolves into the current situation.

Yea, I've been mostly trying to stay in this sort of situation more now. There's times where I want the experience and spacial efficiency of Airbnb (A way to stay in a part of town close to friends/an event that don't live in a normal touristy area with hotels.) but I get that even if I'm responsible/quiet, it's not great to support the owners that aren't in the community.

I often find that the hosts who are renting out rooms/beds in their house are often far more interesting and fun people, and it's usually cheaper anyway. Obviously there's plenty of reasons that's suboptimal for a lot of people, but if it works for you, I'd recommend it.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#69
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hotels have staff that supervise guests. They often have their own security, and have a lot of regulations on what they can and can't do. Airbnb units often don't have anyone supervising their visitors.

Hah, that's funny. I had a horrible night at a hotel in Ireland, where the room next door was partying and the attendant was just powerless to stop it (he tried).

That's the exception rather than the rule.

Most decent hotels have staff and security.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#70
post #49
post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

As a digital nomad I live my life in AirBnBs (with the exception of the occasional hotel and housesit). Over the last 2 years I have stayed in ~20-30 AirBnBs in Asia and Europe (we were going to do the Americas this year...alas). Without AirBnB I don't know how we would be able to live as digital nomads. Hotels are not acceptable because they lack kitchens and laundries (and laptop friendly workspaces). I understand…

You can do rentals, there are non-Airbnb rentals everywhere for periods of "months".

> It does not take AirBnB to have problems with other parties within an apartment block.

No but AirBnB exacerbates that - and adds a host of other problems too.

> But one of the things the we value as digital nomads is living as the locals live (or as close as possible).

But you're not, not really. Come on. Not in "weeks up to months", you need "months up to years" for that.

>Edit: I would love to know why people are downvoting?

(FWIW, I didn't).

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