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I no longer build software

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721–730 of 891 posts

Re: I no longer build software

#721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are right to say that the methods are vastly improved, but the ends to which those methods are applied have become ever more uninteresting (for a lot of people), and often morally suspect. We have built exquisite tools, but we use them to extract profit, to manipulate behaviour and often for no discernable purpose at all. Programming has become joyless. There are ever-shrinking spaces where a developer ge…

Unfortunately I agree with this. A great quote I saw a while ago: “The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads.” –Jeff Hammerbacher Every paying software job I've ever had was in some way involved getting people to click on ads. Either directly making a product where ad click rate is a measured metric, or products that helped people make products where clicking on ads was a metric.…

> Every paying software job I've ever had was in some way involved getting people to click on ads.

That's an amazing fact.

May I ask how old you are?

I've been designing SOCs, DSPs, Control Systems and a lot of software for various systems since 1985, and I can only recall one that might have been close to "clicking on ads" (it was a personalized "on hold" system for dial-in to major retailers (like JCP), to replace Muzak with offers and information and stuff). I was the VOIP-to-Enterprise-Telecom integration guy, so not directly tied to the ad-part, but the company pushed couponing to their clients pretty hard.

Re: I no longer build software

#722
post #529
post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A younger developer might think the tools that suck. A younger developer might think that the older developer's reluctance to embrace change or recall the time when they were beginners is part of the reason why they suck. Like git. Git sucks.

If you think git sucks, which VCS sucks less? I've only tried TFS and SVN myself, but I find git the best option among them.

Mercurial is a contender

Re: I no longer build software

#723
post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you paying though? The most common reason I get pulled in is because of exorbitant aws bills which eclipse dev bills... This sound expensive.

In the past 5 years all my projects have been based on AWS Lambda, API Gateway, S3, DynamoDB and other serverless technologies which are only billed for actual usage and network traffic. So they don't cost much unless they actually get heavy load from users.

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Re: I no longer build software

#724
post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you paying though? The most common reason I get pulled in is because of exorbitant aws bills which eclipse dev bills... This sound expensive.

In the past 5 years all my projects have been based on AWS Lambda, API Gateway, S3, DynamoDB and other serverless technologies which are only billed for actual usage and network traffic. So they don't cost much unless they actually get heavy load from users.

I love how the justification of numerous AWS services is always "so it can scale" but if and when that scale ever happens, a new architecture is necessary because the costs become untenable.

Re: I no longer build software

#725

Totally on board with not building software any more. In fact, at 55 this is my last week of it. For real. Basically, everything sucks more about building software nowadays more than I remember it sucking before, from the mere mechanics of navigating through an obscenely large pseudo-object-oriented codebase to the WRONG constructs/idioms people use to build distributed systems to the way software is packaged and dep…

You sound super burnt out and taking a (possibly permanent) break sounds like just what you need. On the other hand I, at 50, am looking forward to another 25 years of programming with any luck. I think almost everything has improved since I first started with much improved processes (no more waterfall), new and interesting programming languages (with jobs using them), free software becoming firmly established, much better tooling, more interesting work (cloud and distributed systems have added much fun, including improving those distributed systems), enlightened views on testing and documentation being very important (I remember when simple unit tests were frowned upon as wasted time), nearly everything in the software process is automatable (CI, CD are great), etc.

I obviously am at a different place than you but I don't think everyone who enjoys the work has Stockholm Syndrome and needs to be pitied. Some of us honestly enjoy it and I plan on working as long as possible as I really like the external supply of ideas to create.

Though had my carrier taken a different path than it did I can easily see being as burnt out as you. I worked briefly at a large enterprise company (not software makers, think greek sneakers) which was so terrible.. if that sort of job was my only option I wouldn't have lasted a decade in this business. That place was seriously depressing.

Re: I no longer build software

#726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes without saying that your feelings are personal ones, totally valid, and nobody can really question them. I'm 20 years behind you, and I don't know what effect that will have on my views. But I don't really recognise the picture you're painting. Compared to the first steps I took as a developer about 15 years ago, almost everything about software development seems better to me. I find developing software to be…

I think you are right to say that the methods are vastly improved, but the ends to which those methods are applied have become ever more uninteresting (for a lot of people), and often morally suspect. We have built exquisite tools, but we use them to extract profit, to manipulate behaviour and often for no discernable purpose at all. Programming has become joyless. There are ever-shrinking spaces where a developer ge…

> Programming has become joyless.

Over the next year or two I hope to develop a mobile app.

After 15+ years of big messy corporate server programming I think this might be the place joy is hiding.

I accept that I will probably not make the money I have made gluing clouds together the past couple years. But maybe I can make something useful that people like to use.

Re: I no longer build software

#727
post #239

Seems to be a heavy "all modern software development sucks" vibe in this thread, when the issue is more "software I get paid to write sucks". What software would you write if you could write whatever you wanted using whatever language/technology you wanted? Unless all the joy gets sucked out beforehand, pretty sure I'm going to move to be developing Mobile Apps after I retire. It was the most fun I've had writing App…

I do mobile app development and I love it. At work I do that and a little bit of backend and web frontend development and I just don't enjoy those as much. There's more overhead in getting things done there, whereas with iOS development, you have a more constrained space where there's generally just one way to do things, so you spend more time thinking about the problem you are solving vs. dealing with technology issues. Yes, there are still things you have to figure out on iOS that don't have the greatest documentation, but I find it's much more straightforward than the other spaces I mentioned.

If I could write whatever I wanted to on whatever platform, I'd do what I'm doing now as a side project: a flash card app on iOS and macOS. [1] I'm finding it lets me deal with the entire "stack" of interesting product problems: technology, user experience design, solving a real user problem, and even marketing. I'm not treating it as a serious job, so it is mostly fun to work on, although I am getting close to releasing it, so it can be a slog. (This reminds me of what I read about the author of Stardew Valley and how after working on his game for several years, he did find it difficult to keep working on it, which is a problem you really can't get away from.)

[1] See https://www.ussherpress.com/blog/ for some posts about it if you are curious

Re: I no longer build software

#728
post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried... looking for one that isn't? I've been in the biz for coming up on 25 years and I've never tried to make anyone click on an ad. It also may help to downgrade "doing genuine good" from "solving the world's biggest problem once and for all" to "helping people get food reliably" or "keeping this industrial process that provides value to thousands of people going" and so on. Sometimes I do lose a bit of…

I've never had a job convincing people to click ads either in about the same amount of time. But when I look at the salaries being paid by those companies trying to get people to click ads I think I must've made a mistake somewhere. Not that I want to have a job getting people to click ads, but those jobs pay like 2X to 3X the highest salary I've ever made (or more).

Full disclosure, I'm doing OK (not living in SV helps a lot), but, yeah, I'm not pulling down half-a-mil a year.

But I don't want to hate my job. I don't always love my current job... as I like to say, they're paying us precisely because this isn't what we'd be doing of our own free will... but I don't want to hate it.

Because it's more than just the hating the job. It's coming home every day to your family in a bad mood. It's your children associating you coming home with the guy in the bad mood coming home. It's being on hair trigger all the time despite your best efforts. It's living in a place I don't want to live.

The funny thing is, I look at that and I don't feel like I should be willing to pay $300,000/year for that... but apparently I am.

Re: I no longer build software

#729
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can order a comfy car anywhere I am with the tap of a button. I can order food from hundreds of restaurants and have it delivered in less than 30 mins with the tap of a button. I can book flights and hotels with the tap of a button. I can play with friends in virtual reality and actually sweat. I can watch a live stream of SpaceX launching reusable rockets in space. I could buy a car that is almost fully "self driv…

So we've mostly solved trivial non-problems if/not regressions? People lived in 1990 and didn't feel that bad to have to call a travel agency to get a ticket, or, god forbid, to actually meet friends and not in VR space... I'll give you "self driving cars" -- well, I would if they could work today, which they don't...

> to actually meet friends and not in VR space...

This comment is being made in the middle of a pandemic. Does anyone believe that video chat hasn't made modern life better? You have a plan to do remote learning with 1990's technology? Talk to my parents about that, or anyone who has children that live more than an hour or two away. Talk to anyone who's wheelchair bound or who lives in a rural community.

> I'll give you "self driving cars" -- well, I would if they could work today, which they don't...

Fully autonomous cars don't work now, but the extra warning systems, backup cameras, lane shift systems, etc... are saving lives every single day. I like that my car helps me monitor my blind spot when I put my turn signal on. And if anybody ever figures out how to get self driving cars to actually work, they will save a massive number of lives in the process.

> I can land in a completely foreign city and get step by step directions to wherever I need to go.

This was such a common problem that there were entire movies based on people getting lost in tourist destinations and road trips. I grew up reading paper maps inside a car. Nobody would ever want to go back to that. I can think of at least one instance over the past couple of years where having a cell phone with almost universal reception potentially saved my life.

> ...

Netflix didn't exist until 1997, Youtube didn't exist until 2005. Imagine wanting to replace a laptop keyboard, or change an obscure car part, and not being able to find a video that explained how to do it. Ask my parents whether or not they like being able to find videos demonstrating new crochet patterns or woodworking techniques. Ask my parents whether or not they'd prefer to go back to a time when they couldn't realistically pick up any new hobbies or interests unless there was a local community that already existed in our rural town to teach them.

The parent comment here is inscrutable to me, how can anyone be this nostalgic for the early 90s? I grew up in the 90s, it wasn't good. We wanted better technology. There are a lot of problems to solve with modern technology, and a few regressions to address as well, but talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater...

Re: I no longer build software

#730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we've mostly solved trivial non-problems if/not regressions? People lived in 1990 and didn't feel that bad to have to call a travel agency to get a ticket, or, god forbid, to actually meet friends and not in VR space... I'll give you "self driving cars" -- well, I would if they could work today, which they don't...

> to actually meet friends and not in VR space... This comment is being made in the middle of a pandemic. Does anyone believe that video chat hasn't made modern life better? You have a plan to do remote learning with 1990's technology? Talk to my parents about that, or anyone who has children that live more than an hour or two away. Talk to anyone who's wheelchair bound or who lives in a rural community. > I'll give…

Wow, Netflix existed in 1997?

In 1997, you were avant garde if you listened to MP3s.

Apparently, Netflix was an online DVD rental operation then, haha.

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