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US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

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Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#251

Post by pishpash »

TheDong wrote: post #211
ReptileMan wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide a solution that has less 1A impact about Chinese app ran on Chinese servers? I don't think that USG could achieve the goals of Chinese not being able to intercept US communication with anything less than a ban on some level.

Yeah, I can provide an alternative solution: ban its use within the government for sensitive uses, but allow its use by citizens. Issue a public notice to citizens that any wechat communications may be known by the chinese government. If there's an actual national security issue with private citizens using the app, they should air it and give it a chance to be addressed, or succeed in court on its merits. > I don't t…

It is also violation of free association, because social apps have a community aspect.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#252

Post by pishpash »

remarkEon wrote: post #241
TheDong wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I can provide an alternative solution: ban its use within the government for sensitive uses, but allow its use by citizens. Issue a public notice to citizens that any wechat communications may be known by the chinese government. If there's an actual national security issue with private citizens using the app, they should air it and give it a chance to be addressed, or succeed in court on its merits. > I don't t…

The issue is not strictly limited to 1A issues or concern over intercepted communications, though. There's a much larger elephant in the room: a social media app, wildly popular with easily influenced young people, that the Chinese Communist Party has, effectively, editorial control over. That's, imo, the most concerning issue here. Imagine what you could do with this power. (I ask that question a bit tongue in cheek…

Imagine what you could do with a newspaper where the editor has editorial control. Oh the horrors!

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#253

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

Wechat has an inherent advantage that in order to chat in China or too chat with anyone living in China, you must use wechat.

No American or European chatting app has this same benefit. And since chatting apps and social media in general tends to gravitate to the service with the most users, this puts wechat in a great position. Why use wechat to message your friend in China and WhatsApp to message the rest of the world, when you can just use wechat for both?

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#254

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #42
technoplato wrote: post #8

I’m genuinely curious what the perceived threat is here. Is it as simple as “China is going to read everyone’s stuff and use machine learning to figure out what the cool kids are doing and then brainwash them?”

So, separate from the Trump Administration's actual motivations (which I think are at best vague and at worst petty retaliation), I thought this NY Times editorial made a pretty strong case in favor of banning these platforms: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/opinion/tiktok-wechat-ban... TikTok and WeChat benefit from being the only social networks that can be accessed from all of the largest internet markets in th…

I agree with this, social media is most often won by the service reaching the most users. Wechat is the only app you can use to chat with people living in China, and to (easily) chat with home when in China. So why have two apps installed, when one works everywhere?

It's bad enough that the Chinese market is already a bubble (foreign companies need a Chinese partnership to enter), yet the Chinese companies can freely operate in the western world.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#255

Post by chrchang523 »

TheDong wrote: post #214
nullc wrote: post #210

I wonder what would happen if WeChat/TikTok opened up their protocols and let people connect with arbitrary software, including self written and open source stuff. The malware vector concerns would be gone. They could still spy on communication that wasn't E2E encrypted or impersonate users but that concern arises with essentially every communications service.

I doubt that realistically it would make any difference. There being open source alternative apps to consume a service means exactly nothing to the officials pushing for this ban. The action seems to be politically motivated, and technical details like "the protocol is open" are not going to be understood by politicians.

It wouldn't make a difference if only client code was open-sourced, sure.

But if the entire system was open for Americans to peruse and operate their shards of, that might be a different story. Not saying that is practical, but I've never seen an objection on nationalist grounds to the fully open-source code I wrote from China while employed by a Chinese company in 2012-14.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#256

Post by cblconfederate »

gameswithgo wrote: post #105

We see another side effect of app stores: gives governments easy leverage to tell you what you can do with your computer.

you can get a VPN to bypass the Great Firewall. You can't get anything to bypass the App Store

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#257

Post by cblconfederate »

technoplato wrote: post #8

I’m genuinely curious what the perceived threat is here. Is it as simple as “China is going to read everyone’s stuff and use machine learning to figure out what the cool kids are doing and then brainwash them?”

it's about posturing, appearing to 'take a stance' , whatever.

A lot more data is exported to china through the cheap IP cameras.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#258

Post by chrchang523 »

scarmig wrote: post #167
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling the ban evil is a bit hyperbolic IMO, or maybe just incomplete. Phones with the software could easily be compromised. Users with the software can be profiled and tracked by the Chinese government pretty easily. The Chinese market bans most of America's social media software, and we're entering a trade war. All these are real, legitimate reasons to ban it.

No. It is evil, just as the Chinese bans on Facebook etc are evil. There is no real, legitimate reason to ban any software meant for communication. Payments I accept, but general communication should not under any circumstances. Just because some people want to turn the US into a mini PRC doesn't mean we have to embrace their noxious, evil value system.

Nobody is seriously proposing that the US ban successful Indian companies, or that India ban successful US companies (the pushback against Free Basics did not rise to anywhere near that level). This is strictly about global retaliation against PRC Internet policy that is practically forced by geopolitical game theory at this point.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#259

Post by franklampard »

cblconfederate wrote: post #256
gameswithgo wrote: post #105

We see another side effect of app stores: gives governments easy leverage to tell you what you can do with your computer.

you can get a VPN to bypass the Great Firewall. You can't get anything to bypass the App Store

I’ll buy a non iPhone, easy
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