Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes • Hacker News Board

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#101

Post by arkitaip » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 9:53 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #70

Animats wrote: post #62

That's progress. I just want the browser, not a "cloud service". Now to lose "Pocket" and bring back a bookmarks toolbar that lets you find things locally.

Everyone in tech circles keeps saying this, and I agree, but until Mozilla finds a killer app Firefox’s only value is as an ad for Google Search. Which is honestly super depressing so I will applaud any attempt they make at an actual sustainable income stream.

There are so many service that Mozilla could charge money for that tons of people would use because we are paying someone for those service already so it might as well be Mozilla because they are trustworthy and open source. Stuff like file hosting, photo hosting/sharing, password management, blog/site hosting, etc etc. I just don't understand how Mozilla can be this bad at monetization while sitting on top of a gold mine in terms of reputation, developers and organization.

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#102

Post by SimeVidas » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 9:55 PM UTC

Why not create a Firefox+ subscription service (for like $10 per month) and then make Send, Notes, VPN, and more exclusive to that service?

Some people over here are dying to start paying for Firefox.

(Mozilla donations go to the much smaller non-profit part of Mozilla and are unrelated to Firefox.)

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#103

Post by hinkley » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 9:57 PM UTC

basch wrote: post #85

binaryjay wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely amazing how some people can find new ways to blame Google for something they had nothing to do with. Just Incredible. Additionally, if it had not been for the money given to Mozilla by Google the development of Firefox would have severely been in decline and possibly abandoned. >And this is why we all should have shouted louder when Google set this precedent five years ago. Do you also shout loud when…

Microsoft is the anti-example. They discontinue something and then support it for years. Sometimes way longer than they should.

I took it to include the EEE era, probably because the question doesn’t track unless you do.

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#104

Post by fanatic2pope » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 9:58 PM UTC

thesimon wrote: post #73

varbhat wrote: post #22

Looks like Mozilla is becoming VPN company shifting it's previous focus which was on browserware. Mozilla VPN seems to be just rebranded resell of Mullavad VPN with Mozilla Goodies. Mozilla Monitor seems to use https://haveibeenpwned.com/ (also as seen in Firefox desktop) Mozilla Firefox Private Network looks like another Cloudflare Warp's rebrand (with litte good additions maybe?) seeing that it uses Cloudflare . Mo…

>and Management division may force in future to ditch Gecko and adopt Webkit/Blink in the hope that it could bring more userbase (just my thought) to lessen maintainance and focus on revenue. They laid off most people working on Servo, so the adoption of WebKit/Blink seems rather likely.

If they switched to webkit there'd be no more reason to use it over degoogled chromium.

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#105

Post by codefined » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 10:02 PM UTC

ImprobableTruth wrote: post #95

codefined wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are self-hosted, I'd _hate_ to think of the costs of hosting this service through AWS or similar who charges for ingress / egress. We have 5gbps of bandwidth and 12TB of storage that I've dedicated to the service (costing me ~£30/mo, so a fairly trivial sum). I'm hoping that if we ever exceed 12TB / 5gbps, others will similarly host their own versions of the application. I've heard of half a dozen people already w…

>5gbps of bandwidth and 12TB of storage that I've dedicated to the service (costing me ~£30/mo, so a fairly trivial sum). I assume you're using hardware you own and the thirty pounds are just networking costs?

Yeah, pretty much. Some of the storage & networking is stolen from other projects of mine which lowers the cost significantly. Almost all of my servers for home projects come with 4TB hard drives which I never use anywhere near the full capacity of.

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#106

Post by jimmySixDOF » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 10:11 PM UTC

rvba wrote: post #35

kilroy123 wrote: post #9

Why couldn’t they make send work and make money while https://wetransfer.com/ is flourishing?

Because all those side projects are not made to make Firefox, or Mozilla foundation better, but to have nice greenfield projects that allow to boost CV and find a job elsewhere. All those side projects is the reason while Firefox is dying. They completely ignored their core product: they made a worse copy of Chrome that killed all extensions.

Those side projects or the various other 20% time random walk policies push the innovation envelope. It allows the garden approach where a hundred flowers grow, untended, weeds and all. It might be messy but it is supposed to be. It might be uneconomical in the short term sense and therefore first into to the lawnmower during a cash crunch; but it is supposed to be like that also.

I personally have had great, highly individualized, product-market fit with a two year old beta android app out of Mozilla Indonesia of all places [1]. It provides on device unbelievable OCR search for my massive screenshot inventory unique to my personal workflow and it just works.

I have no idea of its future in the new Mozilla but will keep using it until it dosen't work anymore and then find another way.

[1] https://mozilla-next.com/eng/firefox_screenshotgo_beta#first...

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#107

Post by fzzzy » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 10:18 PM UTC

mushufasa wrote: post #52

ahnick wrote: post #45

Yea, for easy github forking! :) Firefox Send was such a great and simple tool for sharing those >10MB (anything that won't fit in an email) files with literally anyone. Now that we'll be maintaining our own fork ( https://github.com/plyint/send ), if anyone has any thoughts on features or fixes you'd like added I'd love to hear from you. Just send us a message from our website ( https://plyint.com ), open a github i…

The value of firefox send for me was that 1) it was hosted 2) it was free 3) I trusted mozilla As a developer, I am already aware of similar open-source packages like magic-wormhole. The code/tools themselves don't solve the problem, though. I had my non-techincal mom exchange sensitive documents through Send but I'm never going to get her to use magic wormhole, and self-hosting is too much hassle for one-off documen…

I wouldn't presume they gave it thorough thought.

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#108

Post by renewiltord » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 10:19 PM UTC

causality0 wrote: post #24

Calling a service that launched only 17 months ago "legacy functionality" is troubling. Why should I engage with any new Mozilla product or service if they're going to cut it off at the knees after a year?

I think perhaps the answer is that you shouldn't. You are clearly not early adopter material. So don't early adopt.

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#109

Post by fzzzy » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 10:22 PM UTC

arkitaip wrote: post #101

Spivak wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone in tech circles keeps saying this, and I agree, but until Mozilla finds a killer app Firefox’s only value is as an ad for Google Search. Which is honestly super depressing so I will applaud any attempt they make at an actual sustainable income stream.

There are so many service that Mozilla could charge money for that tons of people would use because we are paying someone for those service already so it might as well be Mozilla because they are trustworthy and open source. Stuff like file hosting, photo hosting/sharing, password management, blog/site hosting, etc etc. I just don't understand how Mozilla can be this bad at monetization while sitting on top of a gold…

I completely agree about this, but arguments about how we should be more like a public utility and less like a vc funded startup fall on deaf ears in management. I just don't get it. Providing essential services in a trustworthy way is just too boring, I guess.

Re: Update on Firefox Send and Firefox Notes

#110

Post by fzzzy » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 10:22 PM UTC

propogandist wrote: post #41

they were using s3 for file storage. This was likely just burning incredible amount of cash and had absolutely no monetization angle in play.

We had the monetization angle in place from before Send shipped. Charge a small monthly fee. Management didn't care.