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Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

bbc.com

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Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#111

Post by adventured »

_ph_ wrote: post #93
adventured wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 12 in China don't even compare to the single plant built in France right now, if you do the math. I have no idea what you're talking about. The 12 reactors under construction in China are equal to 19% of France's entire nuclear base. And those are just what China has under construction over the next four to five years. In the 20 years it will take France to expand Flamanville, China will have deployed new nucle…

Well you have to divide the energy generation by the population. China has 21 times the population of France, so building 12x as many nuclear power plants isn't much. And France would need to build at least 10 right now, if they wanted to keep their ratio of nuclear power production.

> China has 21 times the population of France, so building 12x as many nuclear power plants isn't much.

They're not 12 nuclear power plants, they're reactors.

China is adding 35-40x the new nuclear power generation vs France over 20 years. It doesn't make much sense to only sample 4-5 years for such a ratio given how long it takes to build nuclear. If we only sample out to 2024-2025, France may be at zero on that scale given the endless delays in their construction. Not to mention, if we pick up the sampling after France is done their present construction, China's advantage jumps to infinite, since France won't be building anything.

You're also moving goalposts repeatedly in these comments.

First you said nobody can build nuclear today. I point out that, in fact, China and India are building nuclear just fine.

Then you say that what China is building doesn't compare to what France is doing. Then I point out that, in fact, China's 12 new reactors are considerable in output, so much so that they're equal to 1/5 of France's entire nuclear base. The output of those 12 reactors is far larger than anything France is building currently, many times over.

Then you move the goalpost again, to a matter of ratios, which I didn't dispute in the first place because it had nothing to do with what you originally claimed.

Your ratio premise requires that China stop building new nuclear power, when their plans are the opposite, they're going to keep building, whereas France is not. For China it's an ongoing process of adding.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#113

Post by bartread »

luckylion wrote: post #103
bartread wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an example of the cultural difference you're talking about: I don't think this is social cohesion. This is highly intrusive: people interfering with other peoples' lives, constantly scrutinising and fault-finding, and sticking their noses in where they don't belong. To me it sounds absolutely intolerable.

> To me it sounds absolutely intolerable. I thought of Sartre's No Exit . But for the type that would go around casting judgement on others for religious infractions in a previous age, it must be paradise.

Yeah, for a Pharisee, it would very much be their jam.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#115

Post by amai »

gautamcgoel wrote: post #17

I lost interest in the city as soon as the article pointed out that the city's "environmentalism" was rooted in opposition to a nuclear power plant. This kind of thinking is backwards and self-destructive.

Actually your kind of thinking is backwards. Nowadays nuclear energy is the most expensive way to produce electricity:

Nuclear energy: 102£/MWh

Gas energy: 85£/MWh

Offshore wind energy: 57£/MWh

Onshore wind energy: 46£/MWh

Solar energy: 44£/MWh

https://www.carbonbrief.org/wind-and-solar-are-30-50-cheaper...

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#116

Post by _ph_ »

adventured wrote: post #111
_ph_ wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you have to divide the energy generation by the population. China has 21 times the population of France, so building 12x as many nuclear power plants isn't much. And France would need to build at least 10 right now, if they wanted to keep their ratio of nuclear power production.

> China has 21 times the population of France, so building 12x as many nuclear power plants isn't much. They're not 12 nuclear power plants, they're reactors. China is adding 35-40x the new nuclear power generation vs France over 20 years. It doesn't make much sense to only sample 4-5 years for such a ratio given how long it takes to build nuclear. If we only sample out to 2024-2025, France may be at zero on that sca…

No, completely not. Of course I am aware that nuclear power plants are still being built. For various reasons. I said, no one can afford to build nuclear power plants. That some still do, is another matter.

The thing is: France is not building enough nuclear power plants to sustain their current nuclear production levels. Finland is struggling to finish the one under construction (vast cost overruns), the UK has a single plant in production with guaranteed prices way higher than market (they want to keep nuclear capability for military reasons I guess). In the US, two half finished plants got abandoned for cost reasons.

Yes, China (and some others) still have ongoing nuclear power plant construction, but compared to the country size, their efforts are also miniscule. To get to the same level of nuclear production, China would need about 1000 plants. They are very far from that and their expansion in renewables is much larger than in nuclear.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#118

Post by woodpanel »

Fishysoup wrote: post #48
woodpanel wrote: post #43

Apparently, owning a car is the easiest way to commit social suicide in Vauban — That is the spirit unfortunately. Unfortunately, because once you allow to degrade strangers/neighbors in public for something malign like that, it doesn’t stop there. Because of this Vauban is not always admired, rather sometimes regarded as tax payer funded dystopia for upper class people to live in. E.g. your amount of thrash you can…

This has been my experience with Germany / Switzerland as well. Very punishment-based

It’s the Alemannian heritage of pietism.

The areas of Baden, the former state Freiburg was part of, and Swabia e.g. were for decades the only areas in Germany were the otherwise urbanite-higher-ed focused Green Party had success with rural/small town voters.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#119

Post by woodpanel »

lifty wrote: post #109
woodpanel wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good question for proving my point. Claiming the moral high ground should presume posession of moral basics like decency (cutting people some slack, benefit of the doubt). Even more so if the moral high ground is used to shame others pulicly or subjugate to dishonorable treatment. If not, all the moral grandstanding is just an excuse to behave like a douche. Thus: people who are annoyed by this leave, with the…

If you knit them yourself from cotton grew in your background, you should be safe.

Hehe, well you forgot: why diapers at all?

1) No diapers, no resources used.

2) There are cultures who just don’t use them, why so imperialistic?

3) Isn’t your disgust of the smell of old diapers just a social construct?

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#120

Post by tonyedgecombe »

saiya-jin wrote: post #72
ornornor wrote: post #52

> why you aren‘t using reusable diapers in the first place. A good question indeed?

I see you don't have kids. Even with one, even when we tried to go as eco-friendly way as possible (including using washable diapers with washable paper inserts), there are limits. Eco wash liquids are not as effective, so you end up sometimes washing twice (what's eco about that?). Washable diapers are much less absorbent compared to regular ones, so its not an option for us for night - baby skin would be highly irr…

I don't understand this, we used reusable nappies (diapers) for our children without any problems. The only exceptions were when were travelling.
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