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Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

macrumors.com

511–520 of 638 posts

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The closed ecosystem with essential services is also a closed ecosystem that runs games. It's also millions or billions of peoples' primary gaming device. iPod Touch exists almost solely to play games on.

yes, but the comparison doesn't go the other way: a game console isn't a general purpose device, nor as important of a utility for the average person as a modern smartphone is.

The only reason for that is that console makers haven't pushed into those personal utility applications.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#512
post #492
post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. What a ridiculous thing to say. 1) You make it seem like Apple are some capricious God like entity that any moment will completely change the underlying terms and conditions you agreed to when running your business in iOS. Its simply not true. If you remove this one situation with Epic its li…

> If you remove this one situation with Epic its literally never happened. Apple has removed apps from the App Store and blocked apps from being published or updated MANY times. Inform yourself.

This one situation with Epic is about Apple disabling "Sign In With Apple".

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#513
post #252
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Horrible company. Yes Epic is. They willingly violated their TOS to the point of even communicating that they were going to violate their TOS. Surprise, surprise if you break the rules don't be shocked when they are enforced. They also are attempting to user their Engine and customer base (against their will) to fight a battle that they don't want to be a part of. This isn't Apple just erasing a company because the…

Epic willfully violated the TOS and went out of their way to rub it in Apple’s face. That’s a given. Apple may be allowed to do everything they’re doing by contract and more. I’m a big Apple fan but they are just... crazy on this. They seem to be going way too far and just being outright spiteful. Far far more than Apple usually does. And they’re scaring a big chunk of their developer base in the process. I don’t kno…

If keeping control of what apps get installed on an iPhone costs them good will with lots of developers, I think Apple is willing to make that sacrifice.

Epic has already shown that they will go to great lengths to get what they want, would you trust them with your customers medical data?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#514
post #442

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> I can't help but think that the whole thing is playing out exactly like Epic had hoped. It seems to be hurting them more than Apple: Epic Games Asks Court to Allow Fortnite Back on the App Store: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/09/05/epic-injuction-fortnite... > Meanwhile, Epic now has a very good reason to collect a working email address from every past iOS customer One of the biggest reason I love using Sign-In Wi…

> All of the other news, like hampering advertisers, is good for users but bad for companies and developers who like to prey on users. I think it's all a mixed bag, and it might be naive of users to assume Apple is always going to protect them from things that go against their best interests. Somehow Apple's arduous review process misses privacy exploits like when Facebook or Tiktok or some other random ad company do…

> Shoot, they even rolled back some big privacy change in iOS 14 because Facebook complained about it.

I must have missed that news — could you share a link?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#515
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic isn't negotiating with Apple. They are suing Apple.

To a sociologist, lawsuits are simply another form of negotiation.

Qualitatively different. Apple's cant risk looking weak here because this issue went to court. Epic could have had an out of court settlement with much better terms.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#516
The comments and discussions are fascinating to observe. Here's the voices you can hear loudest and my thoughts on those.

> Epic broke Apple's ToS

Just because terms have been set, does not mean they are right or that they shouldn't be challenged. Remember, these terms were arbitrary when they were first set, why defend them as if it's written in the constitution?

> But Epic is a big greedy corp that only cares about its own profits

Yeah but Epic's win extends as a win to every small player in the ecosystem. In terms of size, Apple is a trillion-dollar company whereas Epic is multi billion-dollar company. The only people who can challenge Apple are companies like Epic, and not the small players and indie app & game developers.

> Apple's reactionary behaviour is just proving Epic's case

I know right! But that's the whole point that Epic started this saga with. Actually, it started before. Earlier this year HEY/Basecamp guys faced the same issue. Obviously they created a huge uproar, figured a path that works for them, and then shut up completely (instead of continuing the fight, as they promised they would). Epic here is fighting to make a change that will benefit everyone.

> But I'm an Apple user because I like the closed ecosystem

I get it, you want a platform to make decisions for you. In which case, you can continue using the App Store to get your dose of apps and games. But why does your indecision stand in the way of having alternative app stores where people who want to have a choice, get to make that choice.

> But Apple isn't a monopoly

There's 2 major phone OSes in the world. If you're making any kind of mobile game or mobile application, you HAVE to be on either or both mobile OSes. iOS has 60% of US market share, which means it IS a monopoly. Apple exclusively owns iOS. Apple is a monopoly.

Closing thoughts

In the end, I feel that people who don't understand the stand Epic is taking are people who have never done something of their own and failed or faced undue stress on their venture due to a large gatekeeper who stamps on whoever it pleases.

I feel the people defending Apple here NEED to defend Apple to satisfy their internal narrative, which would reflect in their life's pursuit to be a 1 in 10,000 employee of a billion-dollar company.

I'm airing the dirty laundry in the hopes that everyone gains empathy and perspective.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Games are executables, movies are not, nor are songs. Why are people (intentionally?) ignoring this point. Apple reviews all executables.

Stadia is non-executable but Apple bans. They just banning what they don't want.

So if I develop StreamApp today that runs apps in the cloud and just streams the view over the net, and somehow polish the integration with iOS so it is good enough (sharing etc.), would this argument change?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#519
post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need more than gaming studios. The top 100 apps on iOS need to do a 'blackout' and pull their apps from iOS for a week. That will make front page international headlines globally and involve the entire planet. That's the kind of scale necessary. Legislators from around the world will take notice whereas right now, probably very few know or care. Don't discount how little the public knows or cares about these kin…

Do the top 100 apps on iOS feel the same way though? Does every developer out there think 30% commission on paid apps is tyranny? I feel like it's a reasonable trade-off. Free apps don't cost you much (yes, $99 for dev tools is not much honestly. It keeps away spurious bots and spammy accounts). Paid apps cost 30% -- if the dev decides to charge outrageous prices then well, Apple will take an outrageous cut). Most ap…

>grumpy about a shrewd for profit company.

Like Enron or something.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#520
post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do the top 100 apps on iOS feel the same way though? Does every developer out there think 30% commission on paid apps is tyranny? I feel like it's a reasonable trade-off. Free apps don't cost you much (yes, $99 for dev tools is not much honestly. It keeps away spurious bots and spammy accounts). Paid apps cost 30% -- if the dev decides to charge outrageous prices then well, Apple will take an outrageous cut). Most ap…

"Does every developer out there think 30% commission on paid apps is tyranny?" Combined with the ambiguity, lack of choice, threats to business - absolutely yes, iOS is basically universally reviled by developers. Nobody on this planet accepts that the 30% is necessary for anything ergo, it's a massive chunk out of profits. Most companies are not hugely profitable. In many cases, Apple is making considerable more pro…

Not to mention you require an apple machine to compile code for IOS (or rent a service that will compile it for you) - Also you need to PAY for a developer ID.

Their business model is munted. All because people are sheep. They advertised to moronic uni students who like shiny things, Their parents wanted to seem hip so they got on board.

I mean hell, you cant even use a cable they don't own.

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