Live data from Hacker News

Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

macrumors.com

251–260 of 638 posts

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think companies would adapt. And the 3ds has novel enough hardware that you couldn't just replace it with a phone/laptop/whatever. Consoles could also still work out exclusivity deals with publishers, and have a marketplace that is screened, they'd just also need a way to sideload apps.

Consoles that have had easy access to that have historically not done well.

doesn't the xbox have a way to sideload apps?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#252
post #247

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

> Horrible company. Yes Epic is. They willingly violated their TOS to the point of even communicating that they were going to violate their TOS. Surprise, surprise if you break the rules don't be shocked when they are enforced. They also are attempting to user their Engine and customer base (against their will) to fight a battle that they don't want to be a part of. This isn't Apple just erasing a company because the…

Epic willfully violated the TOS and went out of their way to rub it in Apple’s face. That’s a given.

Apple may be allowed to do everything they’re doing by contract and more.

I’m a big Apple fan but they are just... crazy on this. They seem to be going way too far and just being outright spiteful. Far far more than Apple usually does. And they’re scaring a big chunk of their developer base in the process.

I don’t know what they’re thinking, but I think they’re heading towards a Pyrrhic victory at best.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Either you destroy the console ecosystem by forcing them all to open up, or classify iOS as somehow different. Console ecosystems are already open-by-law, based on past cases from the 80s and 90s. You can already publish a game to a Switch or PlayStation without ever going through Nintendo or Sony (so long as you don't steal any copywritten assets to do so). You can even publish your own software, that modifies any…

What are the chances that you can clean room reverse engineer all of the software that has to be included with your game to allow it to run on any console? Besides that, most games - especially Fortnite - have an online component and live and die by being able to apply online.

> What are the chances that you can clean room reverse engineer all of the software that has to be included with your game to allow it to run on any console?

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that you don't actually need to do that to be legal. You just have to clean room reverse engineer the DRM. After that, anything you have legal access to, you can legally use.

You could just get past the DRM on the BluRay drive or SD card slot or whatever, and then assuming you have legal rights to use it, load up a full set of Unreal/Unity/Renderware/whatever middleware you want and be off to the races.

Again: This caselaw pre-dates always-on-DRM and Apple-angry-tantrum-responses stuff. So this stuff was 100% legal and clear in the PS2 / Xbox / GameCube days, when there was a clear separation between the two. Now that Apple has tried to muddy the water by pretending their DRM is a "platform" that "provides value", I suspect it will be easier to confuse folks

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#255

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

They broke the TOS on purpose and are now crying about that Apple actually held the line. I think Apple is way overpriced too, but when you go into their ecosystem and profit on it - you have to play by the rules. If you break the rules, you get removed. I would expect the same treatment on any app store.

The law is above ToS. If you believe ToS are unlawful, then you breaking them might be lawful (to be decided).

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#256

I'm the guy who created the ORIGINAL system what Apple selling as "Sign in with Apple". [My system uses the industry standards like OAuth2. Apple ditched OAuth2 just to steal my work] This EPIC GAMES ban isn't "personal" as you all think. If Apple don't ban "Sign in with Apple" for epic games, then Apple is very much screwed. That's because I wrote the patent claim in such a way. This is my patent claim: https://www.…

> The following table describes the list of ideas copied from the paper I published. For the sake of clarity, I published my white paper in February 2019. Apple released "Sign in with Apple" in June 2019.

So they copied it and released it, in 3 months?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#257
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is news to me. Which one?

Yeah wait, what? The PS5 has so much hype right now and had some of the best exclusives of this console generation, the Switch has been sold out for months, and the Series X reveal was kinda meh but it's not like the Xbox has been hurting.

The probably mean Xbox outside the USA it's not doing too hot which is why they are trying to switch to a SASS platform but I wouldn't say it's dead.

console on contract: https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-all-access sale data: https://hookedontech.com/xbox-one-vs-ps4-vs-switch-console-a...

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#258

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business

It’s the hazards of building your business on another company’s foundation.

There are millions of companies completely dependent on Apple, Amazon, or another organization. In tech terms, it goes back to affiliate marketing days. In real world terms, it goes back centuries.

No leader should make his company dependent on another company, but it happens all the time.

The only things that are different now is that the company is Apple, and that tech bubble social media outrage is a thing.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#259
post #170

To me Apple is only proving Epic's point. Don't you dare make Apple mad, otherwise your entire business on Apple ecosystem will be destroyed.

All it's showing is that breaking contracts has repercussions. If you abuse a service, and they cut you off, you don't get to cry about them enforcing their rules.

You do if you can afford the legal fees.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#260
I don't get why on Hackernews anyone would ever defend Apple here. Regardless of whether they're right to do this if Epic wins their court case against them we stand to gain the most benefit. Apple's incredibly high walled garden is honestly the scariest thing for me. If I develop for windows I can simply distribute my application on my site easily. With Android I can tell people to download from F-Droid if necessary. With MacOS We're nearly at the point that Apple will tell us and users what we can and cannot install or develop for the system. iOS and iPad OS are already there.

Epic caused their own pain here, sure but What other way can we actually get a semi open platform that we're not being taxed on? Why can't we as users and developers have options on iOS? I think that if an operating system allows third party apps they should be _legally_ required to allow other app stores, sideloading of programs without penalty for doing so, or both. That goes for any platform, developed at any time by anyone.

I have been completely at a loss for anyone defending Apple while hoping that Epic loses their fight. The first makes sense but the second is absolutely baffling.

Post reply on HN