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Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#101

Post by AlexandrB »

joshstrange wrote: post #14

It's always interesting to read the comments on articles about the Epic Games situation. We can have discussions about Apple's cut or how Apple operates their store but this is such a clear cut case that I'm honestly surprised so many HN readers are siding with Epic (or maybe it's just the anti-Apple crowd looking for any reason to crap on Apple). Epic tried to get Apple to allow a whole new store on their platform A…

I agree with you that this case is clear cut based on current legislation, precedent, and ToS (as I understand these, IANAL). I think people are siding with Epic because it feels like Apple is overreaching and abusing their market power. Unfortunately, the normal mechanisms for dealing with this: regulation and legislation, are so dysfunctional at this moment in history that it does not seem likely that a legislative solution is forthcoming.

Given all this, Epic's actions represent at least an attempt to reign is some of Apple's power. I think that's why people are siding with Epic - because there is no one else doing anything about the walled gardens increasingly going up in modern computing.

What's really scary is what might happen if Apple wins these lawsuits. With legal precedent set, unless there's legislative action to pass new law, it's unlikely anyone will want to challenge Apple or Google's App Store terms in the future.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#102

Post by ProAm »

emsy wrote: post #43
ProAm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, Isn't this why people pay the Apple tax? To have them protect you (their users) from 'bad apples'? Everyone liked their over bearing approach to their eco-system until it directly affected them, and now it's too much? Have your cake and eat it too?

In my eyes Android is terrible with regards to Google’s tracking and 3rd party app quality and privacy. Apple is the better alternative in my opinion (if you want to own a smartphone, which I do), but that doesn’t mean I like their abuse of power.

The discussion is not about Android at all, not sure why you brought them up?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#103

Post by ribosometronome »

danShumway wrote: post #91
jmpman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace Apple’s iOS ecosystem with Microsoft’s Xbox, Sony’s PlayStation or Nintendo’s Switch. Either you destroy the console ecosystem by forcing them all to open up, or classify iOS as somehow different... or you leave them all to enforce their business agreements through mutually accepted legal term. If Epic doesn’t want a different agreement than Apple, they can negotiate alternative legal terms.

People should be careful drawing too many comparisons to consoles, because as someone who owns rooted consoles that run homebrew mods, I can attest that it's actually awesome and improves the user experience in about a dozen ways. My 3DS supports savestates & backups for games like Animal Crossing that let me maintain multiple towns at the same time, custom emulators that run my old Gameboy cartridge backups that I m…

The consequence isn't that your 3DS would have been better upon releasing, its that it wouldn't have released if the console market had been required to operate this way.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#105

Post by AlexandrB »

viridian wrote: post #98
pjmlp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the dying days of Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft game ecosystems?

One of those companies is going for a last ditch hail mary while facing financial ruin, and if they aren't successful, they will end up out of the hardware game.

This is news to me. Which one?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#106

Post by AlexandrB »

Animats wrote: post #90
aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. For Epic, though, only 12% of their revenue comes from IOS, so they're willing to dump Apple.

It might be less than that if Fortnite iOS users just move over to another platform and keep playing Fortnite.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#107

Post by Spivak »

supernovae wrote: post #84
tehwebguy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly, and please be specific, do you think Apple is doing that is wrong? It is not clear from your comments.

In the case of Microsoft, they denied the Xbox gaming app on the store after it had already been going through wide beta use on ios. They denied it on the grounds that they need to review every xbox game. Which is nonsense. They don't review every netflix movie, they don't review every spotify song, they don't review other content. The app that was denied doesn't actually download the games either, its a remote/onlin…

But that doesn't make a lot of sense. Say this case was actually about Nintendo and the Switch. Nintendo doesn't allow any X rated games anywhere ever on their platform. And then this game comes along that, to the user, just plays other games. Why shouldn't they be reviewed like everything else on the platform? To the user the implementation doesn't matter.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#108

Post by ogre_codes »

staticman2 wrote: post #22
RL_Quine wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intentionally breaking the rules and filing a lawsuit against them with a marketing campaign isn't as if apple just decided they "didn't like" Epic.

Epic's legal position as I understand it is that Apple is behaving illegally and they likely had to break the illegal rule for standing to sue.

The judge in this case have suggested that the case can proceed if Epic reverts their contract breaking changes. Apple has made it clear in court that if Epic reverts their changes they can restore their standing in the App Store.

> they likely had to break the illegal rule for standing to sue.

I'm not sure if this was ever true, but it's quite clear at this point that they can make their app comply with App Store policies and and continue their lawsuit at this point.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#109

Post by 52-6F-62 »

bogwog wrote: post #79
52-6F-62 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Certainly, for public opinion, it means you now have to "tow the line", no protesting allowed. If you dare challenge us, we WILL REMOVE YOU. Isn't that how all private companies work? If you walk into a mom-and-pop corner shop with no "shoes or shirt" you'll be removed as well—whether or not you think it's some kind of righteous protest.

Getting kicked out of a mom and pop shop isn’t going to end my business. Apple has the power to create a visible spike in the world’s unemployment graphs whenever they want. When a company gets that big, it needs to be heavily regulated and scrutinized.

> Getting kicked out of a mom and pop shop isn’t going to end my business.

And it would be a poor business model if it were capable of ending your business, no?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#110

Post by paulryanrogers »

nemothekid wrote: post #17
Jaxkr wrote: post #3

I really hope this will damage Apple’s brand and platform... They enforce their TOS randomly and this will happen to smaller companies too. Hurts the consumer too. People will be locked out of their Epic accounts.

> I really hope this will damage Apple’s brand and platform... They enforce their TOS randomly and this will happen to smaller companies too. Epic's own customers are blaming Epic for this snafu. It's hard to see Apple as the bad guy when Epic is the one who broke the rules first. Almost every gamer isn't going to be sympathetic to a player who broke the rules and got banned.

If rules are illegal then breaking them to challenge them in court seems justified
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