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Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#51

Post by RL_Quine »

modeless wrote: post #49
minhazm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment makes it sound it sound like Apple is breaking the law. Epic could have brought on this lawsuit while still complying with the App Store rules, in fact the judge suggested they do that so their users aren't impacted. They wouldn't be getting kicked off right now and the Sign-in with Apple button wouldn't be getting disabled. They chose to break the app store rules, which they did agreed to, AND they also…

> They could revert their app right now and Apple would restore their account You have no way of knowing this and frankly I doubt it. And I'm not sure that it wouldn't weaken their legal position.

Apple literally told them that in court. Remove the crap, and you go back on the store.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#53

Post by fatnoah »

gpm wrote: post #36

Apple is doing it's absolute best to allow Epic to demonstrate irreparable harm in their motion for a preliminary injunction... This is a curious decision considering that the primary distinction between the part of the temporary restraining order the court granted (against Apple interfering with unreal engine) and the part the court denied (against Apple interfering with fortnite) was that the court thought that Epi…

I also don't get it. It feels like Apple is just shooting itself in the foot. IIRC, if you allow sign in with Google/Facebook/etc. you're required to support Sign In with Apple. Now Apple is disabling that just for Epic. Apple's playing right into Epics assertion that App Store rules are applied arbitrarily and capriciously.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#54

Post by modeless »

RL_Quine wrote: post #51
modeless wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They could revert their app right now and Apple would restore their account You have no way of knowing this and frankly I doubt it. And I'm not sure that it wouldn't weaken their legal position.

Apple literally told them that in court. Remove the crap, and you go back on the store.

Do you have a reference for this?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#55

Post by hienyimba »

A petty move like this clearly shows that Apple as a company has nothing valuable to offer developers.

Shutting down "sign in" options shows that internally, Apple is looking for a way to hurt Epic in a manner that hurts the most but they are coming up short. Although iOS accounts for over one-thirds of Fortnite's 360million users, Epic has already made the brave decision to let that portion of revenue go and nothing Apple does will hurt them into begging Apple to let them back into their walled garden.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#56

Post by pjmlp »

cletus wrote: post #23

So this showdown between Epic and Apple is really interesting. My thoughts: 1. Epic had to know Apple would go nuclear. If they didn't, they're completely incompetent. Let's assume that's not the case. So Epic was itching for a fight. Maybe they were delusional about Fortnite's power here? 2. Apple is going nuclear here. The message is that Apple wants to crush this. This is Apple making an example of Epic. It looks…

Like the dying days of Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft game ecosystems?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#57

Post by cavanasm »

pjmlp wrote: post #46
aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

Nope, Epic broke the contract that they signed with Apple, in an attempt to create a marketing campaign for their own store, which outside HN I bet most users don't give a dam. Like any breach of contract, it should be dealt appropriately.

Believe it or not, you can put illegal things in contracts, and lawsuits are there to work that situation out, which is why Epic has gone this route.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#58

Post by smnrchrds »

joshstrange wrote: post #14

It's always interesting to read the comments on articles about the Epic Games situation. We can have discussions about Apple's cut or how Apple operates their store but this is such a clear cut case that I'm honestly surprised so many HN readers are siding with Epic (or maybe it's just the anti-Apple crowd looking for any reason to crap on Apple). Epic tried to get Apple to allow a whole new store on their platform A…

> Epic isn't fighting for the little guy

So many people say "oh, Epic is not the underdog. They are a huge corporation themselves. They do not deserve my sympathy." As if they don't support this case, but would have supported it if it was brought by a small independent developer. As if it is morally wrong to support the case because it has been filed by a big company.

But guess what, only a multi-billion dollar corporation who is willing to spend north of a billion dollar on legal costs can even toy with the idea of suing Apple and winning. Anything smaller, they will be out of business and everyone will be polishing their resumes and studying leetcode before the first snowfall. There will never ever be a serious legal battle against Apple by a small independent mom-and-pop owned warm fuzzy feelings business. Because they just go bankrupt. Many have perished under App Store rules (you remember the case of the curated app review app from a couple of weeks ago?) and many more will perish.

But if some company, any company at all, even if it is Blackwater, wins this suit, then there is a precedant. Then there is a path forward. Then, even if it comes to a lawsuit, with the precedent, it may only takes a couple million dollars for the ISV to fight it in court, instead of a couple billion dollars. Then there may be alternative app stores, so instead of just going out of business if an Apple reviewer decides they don't like you app, you can move your app to the alternatives, even if they are run by devil incarnates.

Epic may not care about the little guy, but if they win the fight they are fighting, the little guys will benefit immensely.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#59

Post by kgwxd »

jmpman wrote: post #25
aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

Replace Apple’s iOS ecosystem with Microsoft’s Xbox, Sony’s PlayStation or Nintendo’s Switch. Either you destroy the console ecosystem by forcing them all to open up, or classify iOS as somehow different... or you leave them all to enforce their business agreements through mutually accepted legal term. If Epic doesn’t want a different agreement than Apple, they can negotiate alternative legal terms.

How would opening up consoles destroy their ecosystem?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#60

Post by mythz »

Jaxkr wrote: post #3

I really hope this will damage Apple’s brand and platform... They enforce their TOS randomly and this will happen to smaller companies too. Hurts the consumer too. People will be locked out of their Epic accounts.

This wasn't some random ToS violation, this was a willful egregious violation done with subversion & malice to undermine the App Store's revenue model. I don't fault Apple for wanting to sever all ties with bad actors.

> They enforce their TOS randomly and this will happen to smaller companies too.

If their ToS is randomly enforced, which other App/Company violated the same terms as Epic which Apple chose to not enforce? I can't imagine there'll ever be a single case where a remote activated violation to sneak pass App Review would ever be allowed to remain on the App Store once identified.

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