Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19 • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#411

Post by maire » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:31 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

I don't think resentment is a real thing. It is lack of flexibility when a company grows large enough to defer decisions to hr.

When my children were young my employers were very supportive of granting flexibility for my family responsibilities. I was also very productive and giving me flexibility was an obvious win win.

When my daughter had a young family she faced resistance because over the years hr has gained greater power and "if they give flexibility to one employee they have to give flexibility to all employees." The irony was the hr rules at her company allowed work sharing if she was in marketing but not for engineering. They waited until she quit to give her the flexibility she needed.

I think smaller companies are better able to work with employees than larger companies.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#412

Post by tolbish » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:32 PM UTC

jknz wrote: post #266

Managing remote school sessions plus my work was a mess. I made my 10 and 12yo kids drop their remote school stuff and work with me instead. The young one is responsible for slack, keeping everyone in the living room updated and replying with text and the occasional gif, he also summarizes with voice important incoming emails. Older one writes python code alongside me and I now mostly check her syntax. She learned gi…

Except the kid dicking around Slack did more team bonding than you ever bothered doing and now he has your job.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#413

Post by rdtwo » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:32 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #250

gus_massa wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a 24 hours electricity outage last week. (Some problem with an electric wire in the whole block after a heavy rain). Should I buy an electricity generator just in case? I expect to be able to send the kids to school, perhaps at least a few hours per day. It is impossible now. An in case the school is not working, I can send them with one of the grandmas or the other. But we are currently in the peak of the pan…

Glad to hear you're taking responsibility for your life choices in this time of hardship. But... that's what you signed up for when you made the decision to have a child. I guess the question is: Do you believe that you should receive benefits above and beyond those of childless adults because of your life choices? That the act of becoming a parent is so sacred it should grant you benefits in otherwise unrelated area…

Yes because those of us who chose to have kids signed onto a social contract. We pay the 300-500k for raising a kid and the government covers basic schooling And child care from 5-18 so we don’t have to double that. Well the government pulled out of their end so now everyone is overloaded. Moreover even private options are overloaded so the system just broke entirely. Employers are cutting parents a break because they still want them around when the system works again. These people have nothing more left to give in terms of free time.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#414

Post by mrburkins » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:33 PM UTC

quadrifoliate wrote: post #362

kevstev wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a mid 30s childless man I completely agree. We essentially sent people home on a Friday, told them to figure out a work from home situation, and then they were told welp your kids aren't going to school either, and whatever childcare you had lined up has now vanished too- and this is all happening in the course of a few days at most. So now you have kids to worry about all day, home schooling to oversee, focusing…

> Maybe I am making assumptions here on the general political leanings of those here, but if you are talking about supporting anything like Medicare for all, UBI, BLM, PPP or even just support the Democratic party in general, pulling a little extra weight for those in a time of need is IMHO a relatively small ask that you as an individual can implement compared to those agendas. I suspect a fair number of the complai…

I’m curious if people with other legitimate obligations asked and received push back. I’ve seen employers make accommodations for religious, dietary, various family drama (sick parents/partners, death etc), working moms etc - you just have to ask.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#415

Post by lotsofpulp » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:34 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #381

room500 wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this sentiment. Farming is critical for society. However, we don't require everyone to pull on their overalls and work the land. Security is critical for society. However, we don't expect every person to pick up their machine gun and jump in a trench. Society is nowhere near a population level that is dangerously low. In fact, we are more concerned with overpopulation and overconsumption. If you ha…

You're not getting the point that, in the aggregate, it is NOT a choice to have farmers, soldiers* , and yes, parents. On an individual level it might be a choice, but society necessarily needs to be structured to get enough of each of those occupations, i.e. to have sufficient numbers of people making each of those choices. And the required population percentage of parents is at least 50X higher than for farmers and…

>And overpopulation/overconsumption isn't a problem. What is a problem is unsustainable growth. Life is much more pleasant today for most people than it was centuries ago because simply having more people allows for more technological development, more sub-specialization, and better efficiencies of scale, and thus paradoxically with more people everyone can have a much higher standard of living than with fewer people.

The equation isn't so simple. Life is also much more pleasant today because we are enjoying benefits today at the expense of the future generations' environment. Just like governments can excessively borrow from future taxpayers and then drown them if the growth doesn't pan out, so can consumption of resources if mitigation or reversal of environmental change not favorable to humans doesn't pan out.

Also, by definition, "over"population and "over"consumption are a problem, otherwise they wouldn't be "over". All life is constrained by the parameters of the system in which it exists, including humans.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#416

Post by Aunche » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:34 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

> strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy

Empathy needs to go both ways. Childless employees tend to be younger and less experienced, so they often are paid less than those with kids. If you're a junior who needs to work 80 hour weeks to pick up the slack from seniors with kids, but you're also paid less, it's understandable that you would be angry.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#417

Post by chillacy » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:34 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #135

softwaredoug wrote: post #18

It's simply depressing how parent/kid-hostile society has become... I'm not saying we need explosive population growth. But I feel one of the main purposes of society is raising and protecting children. If you're a human-future-optimist, you want some kind of generation that's better than us to continue on.... I'm not saying you NEED to have kids, but I feel it's part of society's collective duty to consider the next…

Societies that don't care about the future in the form of children won't have a future.

Most advanced countries do not have a self-sustaining birth rate (above 2.1, the replacement rate). Some are able to make up the difference in immigration, but immigrants assimilate and then the birth rates go back down.

The US is at 1.77, Canada at 1.5, UK 1.79

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#418

Post by mdorazio » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:38 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #386

room500 wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this sentiment. Farming is critical for society. However, we don't require everyone to pull on their overalls and work the land. Security is critical for society. However, we don't expect every person to pick up their machine gun and jump in a trench. Society is nowhere near a population level that is dangerously low. In fact, we are more concerned with overpopulation and overconsumption. If you ha…

Modern technology means that 2% of the citizens of a developed country can feed the rest. That's why nobody wants/needs the average J. to farm. Modern technology means that only a small percentage of citizens are enough to defend the rest. That's why nobody wants/needs the average J. to fight. If all of a sudden, say, 50% of the people having children now, in developed countries, would decide to not have children, we…

> If all of a sudden, say, 50% of the people having children now, in developed countries, would decide to not have children, we'd probably have societal collapse.

No, we wouldn't. We would have a massive increase in immigration to offset the difference.

> 2. Your lifestyle is made possible by people that choose to have kids. Especially women, who sacrifice a lot for kids. At least be respectful to them.

What does this have to do with anything? I guarantee part of your lifestyle is also made possible by people who can't or don't want to have children. This has nothing to do with any argument either way.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#419

Post by rdtwo » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:38 PM UTC

fizixer wrote: post #115

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

I have two babies: - My pure math research (nothing to do with my day job). Possibly resulting in a part-time PhD program. - My financial portfolio (again not related to my day job). These two babies of mine are as precious and valuable to me (maybe more) than your human babies are to you. Oh, and they take way more time. Do I get extra benefits as a parent of two babies?

Yep they get the same benefits eveone else does. You get to be screwed by government mishandling of covid. Your employer simply decided you were getting screwed less than your peers so they shifted a bit more in your direction. At will employment you are free to quit of course.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#420

Post by goldenchrome » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:38 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #410

goldenchrome wrote: post #6

I sympathize with the parents but this is just how life goes. If you have kids, you’re going to be more occupied than people without kids since we all have limited time on this Earth. And of course your career will be negatively impacted. There are good things about having kids and bad things. This is one of those potential bad things. If you don’t want to deal with this possibility then simply don’t have kids.

If you don’t want to deal with this possibility then simply don’t have kids. This attitude -- which is pretty common in the US -- never fails to astound me. First, a lot of babies are not planned. Birth control failures happen or young people learn the hard way the facts of life because they fooled around ended up pregnant before they had a good idea of how things worked and some people are essentially brainwashed fr…

My comment was directed at wealthy tech workers who have access to education, contraceptives, and abortions. Of course there are outliers but most of my coworkers carefully planned their pregnancy around their company’s promotion schedules.

And I don’t think the human race is anything special and I’m more than happy to let it die off if we decide to stop having kids.