PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence • Hacker News Board

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#161

Post by hippich » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 7:03 PM UTC

thrwn_frthr_awy wrote: post #158

hippich wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there were a lot of people who wanted to observe polls. many of them were arrested for "disrupting voting process", or were pushed all the way out of the polling place. Independent observer had to use a chairs and binoculars to try to see anything. Seriously. https://gdb.currenttime.tv/180604A0-D026-4424-8214-7E00D4B60...

It is important to understand who the poll watchers are and what their motives are. In the U.S. in the 1980's poll watching was used as a cover for voter intimidation when white males in combat boots and 10 gallon cowboy hats and even some with guns, many off-duty police officers, were recruited and sent to African American and Latino communities to stand near polling places with signs saying they are patrolling the…

What you are saying is true. But it is irrelevant in Belarus. See picture above representing a typical independent observer in Belarus.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#162

Post by pc86 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 7:03 PM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #129

spankalee wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're much more likely to get "your" representative in this model. In geography-based districting, you only have a chance to vote for someone who represents your interests if they run in your district. Gerrymandering is often perpetuated under claims that we need to draw districts to group like voters so they can have representation. Example: Black majority districts were drawn to allow for Black representatives, bu…

I just don't know that an entire US state is the correct resolution to have multi-seat districts at. I feel like I would prefer in larger states to have a multi-seat district of one or more counties, but not really an entire state. It's not like states are some auspiciously chosen grouping of counties with clear benefits.

No, but they are the smallest form of government who doesn't rely on some other form of government for its existence.

States exist because the Constitution (and one or two other things) say they exist. The US government cannot pass a law abolishing Missouri, even if everyone really wants to. Missouri, however, can change its county structure, abolish cities, etc. Because the very existence of those forms of government depend on the existence of Missouri.

By design, the US is a federation of more-or-less sovereign States. "Laboratories of Democracy" and all that.

It doesn't really make sense to have proportional representation at any level smaller (or larger) than the individual state.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#163

Post by crististm » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 7:03 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #50

hippich wrote: post #21

A few facts about these events: - Based on data collected by from only some polling places, there is a huge discrepancies in results comparing to official ones. Most poling places refused to post results. People, who demanded to post results (as the law requires), were arrested. You can read more about it at belarus2020.org - A lot of journalists left state media. Replacements were brought from Russia's state's propa…

> Based on data collected by from only some polling places, there is a huge discrepancies in results comparing to official ones. Most poling places refused to post results. People, who demanded to post results (as the law requires), were arrested. You can read more about it at belarus2020.org Whatever country you're in, this is a good time to think about becoming a poll watcher. The exact arrangements vary but electi…

So, it's that simple, isn't it?

There is a reason that the word 'clandestine' exists. Opposing the government in the open works only when the government is not yet a dead zombie corpse.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#164

Post by mindslight » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 7:05 PM UTC

bonzini wrote: post #144

maerF0x0 wrote: post #74

For me, this serves as a stark reminder to invest in barriers to oppression. * General education (ideally, not state mandated) * General self defense (fitness, martial arts, firearms training) * Technological counter measures - TOR, crypto, crypto currency, and IMO we should be pushing for electronic voting systems (not shitty ones, but truly great ones) * *Edit: By great ones, I mean ones that allow us to validate o…

> There are crypto voting systems that do not allow anyone (including the government) to know if you voted or what your vote is (identifying you), but still allows tallying and validation. Are they safe against "rubber hose cryptanalysis"? Such as forcing you to verify your vote while I can see you?

No cryptographic system can be resistant to this by itself, but the attack can be trivially defeated by keeping the existing concept of polling stations and having people cast their cryptographically-verifiable votes there.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#165

Post by pc86 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 7:06 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #73

cpitman wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any idea how to preserve the ability for people to go to "their" representative under that model?

With the exception of lobbyists that actually have a chance to make their case directly to representatives I doubt much would change as most people's way of contacting their representative is an email, letter or phone call, which pretty much is always answered by some random staff of the representative.

You can absolutely make appointments to speak to your representatives (Senators included). You're more likely to get someone discussing an issue they're working on, or that one of their committees is working on, but they'll see you for anything.

You can ambush them in a hallway or at a fundraiser, and they'll talk to you, but you'll have just as much luck making an appointment.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#166

Post by hippich » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 7:06 PM UTC

maltalex wrote: post #147

pjc50 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Based on data collected by from only some polling places, there is a huge discrepancies in results comparing to official ones. Most poling places refused to post results. People, who demanded to post results (as the law requires), were arrested. You can read more about it at belarus2020.org Whatever country you're in, this is a good time to think about becoming a poll watcher. The exact arrangements vary but electi…

While I generally agree, I'd like to point out the fact that observing the elections in a western democracy is nothing like observing the elections in a country like Belarus where the president has been in power since 1994. The elections in Belarus can hardly be called that. There really isn't that much to observe besides the obvious. No number of observers could have changed the results.

I still think it is important to try to observe what can be observed.

For example, thanks to the independent observers we know that the number of ballots reported by the voting place were greater than the total number of people who visited the place during early elections days. Even pushed outside of the building, observers can count number of people walking in and compare to protocols published.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#167

Post by merpnderp » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 7:07 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #43

merpnderp wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how the US has stepped down from that role: https://www.state.gov/ukraine-and-russia-sanctions/ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-belarus-election-usa-sanc... And if you mean "diplomatic hostiles" in that the US is angry at the EU for not cooperating with the sanction process against targeted countries or meeting their military obligations so that they qualify to vote in international politics, then I g…

You're not sure? How about Trump fighting against new sanctions and actively pursuing removal of existing ones? https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-administration-battles-n... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/27/us-lifts-sanct...

I just linked the State department's actual list of sanctions and their stance on sanctions and you call me wrong and link the daily frick'n beast and "The hates Trump more than cancer Guardian" to refute original sources?

I mean I'm sure their opinions are good representation for how they feel, but should they refute facts as reported by the bureaucrats which actually enforce the sanctions? I mean come on, this is ridiculous levels of gas lighting.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#168

Post by Kalium » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 7:14 PM UTC

hippich wrote: post #146

csomar wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the problem with Belarus is the lack of these but rather of external forces. Russia thinks that Belarus belongs to its control; and a democratic system will most certainly be US-friendly. This is hardly a citizen revolt against dictatorship and is one of the several proxy-war these two guys (US/Russia) are playing worldwide.

It is true that Russia has a lot of control over Belarus, but it is revolt against dictator. There is no talks about ceasing partnership with Russia simply because the country is too relying on Russia's market. The idea that people want to get rid of dictator to get away from the Russia is what is pushed by Belarus state propaganda media precisely to push Russia to support dictator.

If you're a Russian autocrat, you're probably terrified of a "color revolution" challenging your control over what you view as Russian territory. If people there get to make their own choices, they might do what the Baltic states did and align with the West.

The very idea of democracy threatens the power structure.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#169

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 7:15 PM UTC

bonzini wrote: post #144

maerF0x0 wrote: post #74

For me, this serves as a stark reminder to invest in barriers to oppression. * General education (ideally, not state mandated) * General self defense (fitness, martial arts, firearms training) * Technological counter measures - TOR, crypto, crypto currency, and IMO we should be pushing for electronic voting systems (not shitty ones, but truly great ones) * *Edit: By great ones, I mean ones that allow us to validate o…

> There are crypto voting systems that do not allow anyone (including the government) to know if you voted or what your vote is (identifying you), but still allows tallying and validation. Are they safe against "rubber hose cryptanalysis"? Such as forcing you to verify your vote while I can see you?

[deleted]

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#170

Post by runarberg » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 7:16 PM UTC

bonzini wrote: post #144

maerF0x0 wrote: post #74

For me, this serves as a stark reminder to invest in barriers to oppression. * General education (ideally, not state mandated) * General self defense (fitness, martial arts, firearms training) * Technological counter measures - TOR, crypto, crypto currency, and IMO we should be pushing for electronic voting systems (not shitty ones, but truly great ones) * *Edit: By great ones, I mean ones that allow us to validate o…

> There are crypto voting systems that do not allow anyone (including the government) to know if you voted or what your vote is (identifying you), but still allows tallying and validation. Are they safe against "rubber hose cryptanalysis"? Such as forcing you to verify your vote while I can see you?

I’m not an expert, but couldn’t you keep a link between your public key and your vote while the election is open. Allow subsequent votes that will nullify votes associated with your public key. And when the polls close, this link gets deleted.

This way you can be intimidated to vote and verify a certain way, then after your intimidator leaves you alone, you simply cast another vote. And after the deadline passes any record that you personally casted a ballot have been erased.

Maybe as a further safeguard keep traditional in-person polling open, wherein showing up to you automatically nullify you previous crypto vote, and only your paper ballot counts.