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PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

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Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#141

Post by indymike »

malandrew wrote: post #73
cpitman wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any idea how to preserve the ability for people to go to "their" representative under that model?

With the exception of lobbyists that actually have a chance to make their case directly to representatives I doubt much would change as most people's way of contacting their representative is an email, letter or phone call, which pretty much is always answered by some random staff of the representative.

I've always had great luck visiting my reps, either at home or in DC. The rarely get visits from actual voters and they and their staff love getting someone who is not a lobbyist as a guest. If you do so, have an ask, and most importantly have a story about how you or someone close to you is affected by whatever you want changed. Every time I've got things to move in a positive direction, and never once was I asked to make donations.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#142

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

dfxm12 wrote: post #139
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that your political opponents say similar things. They're convinced - perhaps wrongly, but as far as I can tell honestly - that anti-Trump politicians are encouraging political violence and will commit more terror attacks in the name of preventing an authoritarian takeover. They point to James Hodgkinson the same way you point to Cesar Sayoc. As someone who's extremely opposed to political violence but…

The differences are obvious and numerous. * James Hodgkinson wasn't motivated by a politician's platform or speeches. This is the material difference that makes me wonder if you're asking this in good faith or not. No mainstream politicians suggested violence against standing Republican congressmen. None of Trump's opponents are saying they are going to ignore the results of any election. * The politicians Hodgkinson…

Again, your political opponents say the same thing. They tell me that their leaders immediately and definitively condemned Sayoc, tell me that your leaders did not condemn Hodgkinson to their satisfaction, and show me lists [0] of citizens being threatened or assaulted for wearing Trump campaign gear. There may well be obvious and numerous differences - I tend to agree with you that there are! - but you're not getting a complete picture if you're seeing political violence as a one-sided phenomenon.

0 - https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU00/20190409/109266/HHRG...

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#143

Post by dctoedt »

bobthepanda wrote: post #140
dctoedt wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been suggested that Congress could protect any given enactment by expressly stripping the Supreme Court and lower courts of jurisdiction to review the enactment's constitutionality — which Congress seemingly has plenary power to do under Article III, section 2, clause 2. [1] [1] https://newrepublic.com/article/158992/biden-trump-supreme-c...

This sounds like a precedent that's bad to establish because it cuts both ways.

Precedent and norms have somewhat gone by the wayside in recent years, so that might not be a compelling reason not to act.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#144

Post by bonzini »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #74

For me, this serves as a stark reminder to invest in barriers to oppression. * General education (ideally, not state mandated) * General self defense (fitness, martial arts, firearms training) * Technological counter measures - TOR, crypto, crypto currency, and IMO we should be pushing for electronic voting systems (not shitty ones, but truly great ones) * *Edit: By great ones, I mean ones that allow us to validate o…

> There are crypto voting systems that do not allow anyone (including the government) to know if you voted or what your vote is (identifying you), but still allows tallying and validation.

Are they safe against "rubber hose cryptanalysis"? Such as forcing you to verify your vote while I can see you?

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#145

Post by kiliancs »

mola wrote: post #8
zerr wrote: post #7

When we see that nations are hostages of their criminal governments - what real mechanisms are there for helping those nations? e.g. what would be the outcome of targeting specifically Lukashenko, Putin, Kim Jong-un along with their inner circles respectively?

Usually(last 50y) US and EU would initiate sanctions, if it doesn't collide too greatly with their own interests, that would put pressure on respective government by putting their economy in peril. Lately US has stepped down from that role, and openly started diplomatic hostilities towards the EU. EU isn't powerful enough alone, plus they deal with their own economic and social issues which make them not stable enoug…

One aspect that I find often overlooked is that when countries or agents within countries decide to take this sort of action, they have already factored in this sort of international response, which makes it obvious that these are not enough.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#146

Post by hippich »

csomar wrote: post #116
maerF0x0 wrote: post #74

For me, this serves as a stark reminder to invest in barriers to oppression. * General education (ideally, not state mandated) * General self defense (fitness, martial arts, firearms training) * Technological counter measures - TOR, crypto, crypto currency, and IMO we should be pushing for electronic voting systems (not shitty ones, but truly great ones) * *Edit: By great ones, I mean ones that allow us to validate o…

I don't think the problem with Belarus is the lack of these but rather of external forces. Russia thinks that Belarus belongs to its control; and a democratic system will most certainly be US-friendly. This is hardly a citizen revolt against dictatorship and is one of the several proxy-war these two guys (US/Russia) are playing worldwide.

It is true that Russia has a lot of control over Belarus, but it is revolt against dictator. There is no talks about ceasing partnership with Russia simply because the country is too relying on Russia's market. The idea that people want to get rid of dictator to get away from the Russia is what is pushed by Belarus state propaganda media precisely to push Russia to support dictator.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#147

Post by maltalex »

pjc50 wrote: post #50
hippich wrote: post #21

A few facts about these events: - Based on data collected by from only some polling places, there is a huge discrepancies in results comparing to official ones. Most poling places refused to post results. People, who demanded to post results (as the law requires), were arrested. You can read more about it at belarus2020.org - A lot of journalists left state media. Replacements were brought from Russia's state's propa…

> Based on data collected by from only some polling places, there is a huge discrepancies in results comparing to official ones. Most poling places refused to post results. People, who demanded to post results (as the law requires), were arrested. You can read more about it at belarus2020.org Whatever country you're in, this is a good time to think about becoming a poll watcher. The exact arrangements vary but electi…

While I generally agree, I'd like to point out the fact that observing the elections in a western democracy is nothing like observing the elections in a country like Belarus where the president has been in power since 1994.

The elections in Belarus can hardly be called that. There really isn't that much to observe besides the obvious. No number of observers could have changed the results.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#148

Post by bonzini »

trhway wrote: post #127
diego_moita wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Yugoslav wars were mostly ethnic conflicts that happened after the collapse of communism, not exactly a democratic revolution. I concede in Romania, but that is an atypical case. The overall case of collapse communism was peacefull: Poland, Hungary, East Germany, Czechozlovakia, Bulgaria, Albania, ...

No, the way to 1989 wasn't all that peaceful. For example there was the martial law and repressions against "Solidarity" during 198x in Poland. And you forgot the 1968. The resolve of the East Europeans in 1989 was pretty clear that if USSR brings in tanks the people will continue to stand up even in the face of the tanks, and it will be 1968 all over the place. The 1968 provided credibility to that. Thus the USSR an…

It was peaceful on the oppressed side. There's a reason why the Czech revolution of 1989 is called 'the velvet revolution'.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#149

Post by pstuart »

Mirioron wrote: post #108
pstuart wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmmm. I just do nazi why this is getting downvoted.

Because the situation is (probably) a lot more nuanced than what you paint it as.

My points were nuance.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#150

Post by romwell »

tehwebguy wrote: post #138
exo762 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protests in Belarus are way more civilized than recent protests in both Portland and the rest of USA. The difference is stark, shocking, and puzzling.

Do you mean the police in Belarus are acting way more civilized? Aside from property damage I've seen over 1000:1 ratio of police brutality content to protestor violence content in the US over the last several months. Presumably the ratio is somewhat lower than that, but I imagine it still leans this direction. As a specific illustration, in just a month police shot like 7 protestors' eyeballs out. The cost of these…

>Do you mean the police in Belarus are acting way more civilized?

No. The police in Belarus is just torturing people in cells where no evidence can be produced. Different style, you see.

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