51–60 of 109 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. The worst of deeds are done by those who think of themselves and their clan as the kind-gentle ones saving the world from evil [TM].
[citation needed]
(I have no idea to what extent catholic Priors considered themselves kind and gentle ca. 1200, however.)
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a pretty succinct description of the two sides of tribalism.
To have a We, you need a They. An alien threat would be the best thing ever for human cooperation. I'm not sure whether the aliens need to be real, as long as they feel real.
Or maybe too alien to suffice as a subanthropomorphisable They?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. The worst of deeds are done by those who think of themselves and their clan as the kind-gentle ones saving the world from evil [TM].
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C. S.…
"No one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power."
> Bregman is horrified by the Holocaust, as anyone who believes in the goodness of humankind must be. He suggests that people will indeed do nasty things on a mass scale if they are convinced that it is for the greater good. It was not inherent nastiness that led to the Holocaust, Bregman suggests, but years of indoctrination. How about all the mega-killers in history - Genghis Khan, Timur, Alexander, Napoleon? It se…
Geghis Khan and Alexander would both make the case that they were helping the world by uniting it and ending micro-conflicts - the people they killed along the way were necessary sacrifices who had the option to instead surrender to something greater. There's also an element of "divine right" at play - they believed they were fulfilling a religious entitlement. Napoleon would make a similar argument, likely one more…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> tribal leaders striving to unite people via voluntary consensus, tolerance and moderation 'Citizen 99234832, we have received reports that suggest you are insufficiently consensual, tolerant and moderate. Please report to camp X101 for voluntary reeducation, or face the consequences.'
Yes, you have noticed that authoritarians sometimes use the veneer of freedom and cooperation to force obedience. Sometimes they just use strongman tactics. It doesn't change the fact that voluntary consensus and tolerance are, in fact good.
All it takes is one narcissist to ruin things for everybody else.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
...and the article has a direct response to your first part: > He suggests that people will indeed do nasty things on a mass scale if they are convinced that it is for the greater good. It was not inherent nastiness that led to the Holocaust, Bregman suggests, but years of indoctrination. For your last point about people in poverty, I would point out that the global poverty has gone down dramatically during capitalis…
And yet he has no explanation for why people will torture other people, to the point of death, for getting quiz answers wrong. This kinda points to his hypothesis of these being outliers as being incorrect. The inherent selfishness, as he himself refers to, of humanity leads to the nasty and brutish behavior. > I would point out that the global poverty has gone down dramatically during capitalism's reign And yet the…
From the article:
"Bregman's digging into subsequent critiques of the experiment revealed that it was not quite as bad as it seemed: a substantial proportion of the "torturers" had figured out that it was not real. Several more protested that it was wrong. Those who did continue were convinced by the researchers that what they were doing was for the greater good."
So Bregman disagrees with your premise.
Re: US poverty.
https://www.vox.com/2014/12/14/7384515/extreme-poverty-decli...
If that's not progress, I don't know what is.
Also, the US official poverty rate doesn't take all the social programs (like food stamps, etc) into account. If you do:
https://www.nber.org/papers/w26532#fromrss
the poverty has dropped substantially.
We help our own, and destroy and torture with great pleasure and no remorse everything else, including animals, whole ecosystems, and other human beings we decide, for some reason or another, are "aliens". The moment we give another human community a special name is the first step towards abomination. Being territorial and aggressive towards others is a trait we share with other species, but we are also superpredator…
We help our own, and destroy and torture with great pleasure and no remorse everything else, including animals, whole ecosystems, and other human beings we decide, for some reason or another, are "aliens". The moment we give another human community a special name is the first step towards abomination. Being territorial and aggressive towards others is a trait we share with other species, but we are also superpredator…
I like to eat chicken, beefs, and porks for no other reason than it's tasty food. Does that make me a bad person?
We help our own, and destroy and torture with great pleasure and no remorse everything else, including animals, whole ecosystems, and other human beings we decide, for some reason or another, are "aliens". The moment we give another human community a special name is the first step towards abomination. Being territorial and aggressive towards others is a trait we share with other species, but we are also superpredator…
I like to eat chicken, beefs, and porks for no other reason than it's tasty food. Does that make me a bad person?