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Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu

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Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#411

Post by murgindrag »

9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #406
violetgarden wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! I am a female in the tech industry, and we are inundated with warnings about going into a male dominated field. I’ve noticed it gets to a point where some women can’t even receive criticism because they think “he wouldn’t talk to another man like that,” even if the criticism is valid. I can see why it happens though. We hear over and over about being harassed and put down that we almost subconsciously get a chip…

O guess these things also depend on country, in Eastern Europe where I'm from many high position successful women leaders have stated that gender quotas are actually offensive and they wouldn't want to be so called diversity hire. I think about it often how Americans who get into somewhere because of their knowledge and skill but are part of some minority think affirmative action (discrimination for us), it would be…

On the whole, Eastern Europe seems to have done much better with gender equity than the US.

(That's a relative comparison)

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#413

Post by licebmi__at__ »

thu2111 wrote: post #310
sydd wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why does the university cave in so easily? Why is the Dean himself crawling on the floor to apologize for basically nothing? Are they afraid of bad PR? or lawsuits? Why?

This essay provides a highly thought-provoking answer: https://quillette.com/2020/08/16/the-challenge-of-marxism/ The argument is sophisticated and hard to summarise, but essentially, the author argues that "enlightenment liberalism" (i.e. the sort of philosophy that dominates universities) has a flaw at its centre that both creates Marxists and causes "enlightenment liberals" to constantly give in to the demands of…

A nice example of "Everything I dislike is Marxism". Marx was extra specific in which his historical analysis was about economic classes. The framework he cites with the opossing groups is not exclusive to marxism, but hey, I guess it wouldn't be scary enough to the casual reader calling it Hegelianism for example.

Weird enough, the article gets a lot right, the critique of liberalism is on point IMO, but I don't really see the point of bringing this to the table. Radical liberalism is self-defeating as the framework fails to acknowledge the power relationships, thus is not surprising that liberal principles can result on illiberal consequences when tried to being pursued. Marxism was not even a thing when the french revolution became a bloodbath, and you can even say taking this event in account, Marxism is more descriptive on the outcomes of revolution than prescriptive.

On my perspective, on the recent events, I see only liberalism eating itself, and certainly I see little Marxist relationship with clear marxist tenants like workers taking control of their economic results. That's unless you're a liberal writing on a liberal magazine, doing mental gymnastics to avoid seeing the failures of liberalism, then you can loosely define Marxism and blame it all on it.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#414

Post by svrb »

krapp wrote: post #409
svrb wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't, but I believe "cancel culture" is entirely defined by the left, so again I find the notion of the left being "open-minded" entirely contrary to all lived experience. Can you point to a single piece of evidence for the left being more open-minded?

>I don't, but I believe "cancel culture" is entirely defined by the left, so again I find the notion of the left being "open-minded" entirely contrary to all lived experience. So.. you actually do. Otherwise the idea of an open minded leftist wouldn't be incomprehensible to you. > Can you point to a single piece of evidence for the left being more open-minded? Leftist philosophy has its roots in the French Revolution…

> So.. you actually do.

> like yourself, seems to see the left as some kind of SJW hivemind.

I'm unable to have a meaningful discussion here as long as you are putting words in my mouth. I'm not sure why you decided it was necessary to embark on this ideological crusade due to my honest question but I hope you find peace somehow.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#415

Post by Klinky »

marvin wrote: post #394
Klinky wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is obviously nuance, but if the word sounds like a slur, and is used generally to describe people of a certain race, then the offended can certainly express their offense, and the culture should consider the offended person's position. In this case I am pretty sure the word is "neger", and yeah, I don't think we should mourn or handwring over any sort of great loss of Norweigian culture/heritage that has occurr…

The word in question is not "neger", it's "svart". Translating to "negro" and "black", respectively. The former has been considered old-fashioned or pejorative for a couple of decades, the latter has only recently become disputed. The politically correct version for "svart", would be "med mørk hudfarge" ("with dark skin color") or, if you want to push the edge of propritey, "mørkhudet" ("dark-skinned"). And sure. If…

It seems "neger" was still debatable according to this reddit thread from 2012 https://www.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/ylcpw/what_do_i_cal... and Marrianne Gullstead paper seemed to indicate it was still being hotly debated in the early 2000s, not that it had fallen completely out of fashion by then. It sounds like the situation is still evolving. Is there anything that highlights the controversy around "svart"?

The main point was that if you continue to use a word that someone described as offensive to them then it's hard to argue "best intentions", and it comes off as either laziness or disdain for that person.

You can take those offended by proxy with a grain of salt, but in some cases there is truth behind what they are saying, and it should still be considered.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#416

Post by 9HZZRfNlpR »

Klinky wrote: post #324
marvin wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like an unreasonable statement when meeting a culture that's not your own. Let's say you're offended by the word "blank" because of cultural transgressions that have happened throughout the last 100 years of history in your country. You then emigrate to a different culture that hasn't experienced the context of these transgressions. The word "blank" is in their language used in a purely descriptive sense.…

There is obviously nuance, but if the word sounds like a slur, and is used generally to describe people of a certain race, then the offended can certainly express their offense, and the culture should consider the offended person's position. In this case I am pretty sure the word is "neger", and yeah, I don't think we should mourn or handwring over any sort of great loss of Norweigian culture/heritage that has occurr…

That's straight up American imperialism, I suggest you to do better and think it through next time you suggest horrible things like that.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#417

Post by libraryatnight »

svrb wrote: post #414
krapp wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't, but I believe "cancel culture" is entirely defined by the left, so again I find the notion of the left being "open-minded" entirely contrary to all lived experience. So.. you actually do. Otherwise the idea of an open minded leftist wouldn't be incomprehensible to you. > Can you point to a single piece of evidence for the left being more open-minded? Leftist philosophy has its roots in the French Revolution…

> So.. you actually do. > like yourself, seems to see the left as some kind of SJW hivemind. I'm unable to have a meaningful discussion here as long as you are putting words in my mouth. I'm not sure why you decided it was necessary to embark on this ideological crusade due to my honest question but I hope you find peace somehow.

Seems like he answered your question and you did not like the answer.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#418

Post by krapp »

svrb wrote: post #414
krapp wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't, but I believe "cancel culture" is entirely defined by the left, so again I find the notion of the left being "open-minded" entirely contrary to all lived experience. So.. you actually do. Otherwise the idea of an open minded leftist wouldn't be incomprehensible to you. > Can you point to a single piece of evidence for the left being more open-minded? Leftist philosophy has its roots in the French Revolution…

> So.. you actually do. > like yourself, seems to see the left as some kind of SJW hivemind. I'm unable to have a meaningful discussion here as long as you are putting words in my mouth. I'm not sure why you decided it was necessary to embark on this ideological crusade due to my honest question but I hope you find peace somehow.

>I'm unable to have a meaningful discussion here as long as you are putting words in my mouth.

You didn't expect someone to actually put in effort, I understand. Look for some lower hanging fruit then. Good luck.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#419

Post by Klinky »

marvin wrote: post #408
Klinky wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am guessing the word here is "neger", and is more akin to the US use of the word "negro" than the slur "Ni er"[looks like HN censors even my censored version of the slur to "Nier"]. Even in the US "negro" has mostly fallen out of general use, and is considered derogatory in most casual contexts.

As mentioned in sibling thread, unless GP is 80 years old and has had their head in the sand for the last 30 of them, the word in question is likely "svart" (black) rather than "neger" (negro).

It would have been nice if GP had actually noted the word, and no they do not need to be 80 years old to have possibly meant "neger", it depends I guess on their intentions...

Edit: Frankly I am not sure why they would have meant "svart" while blaming specifically "American migrants". It seems "neger" would be much more immediately offensive to someone coming from the US.

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