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Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu

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Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#401

Post by throwawaysea »

anonu wrote: post #255

The comment at the end is spot on: Please know that there are many people that support you and are sick of this hyper-sensitive, McCarthyism-like environment that is being fostered across the country." My view on this is it's the culmination of years of anti free speech trends on campus. It's a sad day when universities which should be bastions of tolerance, exploration and ideas have their culture consistently chipp…

The irony of the new anti free speech movement is that much of it sprung up on Berkeley’s campus (and nearby SF), which is also host to the famous Free Speech Cafe.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#402

Post by anonu »

himinlomax wrote: post #385
anonu wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"nique" or "niquer" in French is pretty interesting... It's actually an Arabic swear word meaning the same thing.

I doubt « forniquer » is Arabic.

It's not. I'm also not sure what your point is.

https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/niquer

Here's a definitive source... The word originated from French military slang in 1918 from Algeria. Something about getting shot in the back. The abbreviations in the etymology section of the page are hard to make out

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#403

Post by least »

shajznnckfke wrote: post #328
least wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the onus on the speaker to change their behavior to accommodate a person who's taken offense to a a word that is completely innocuous?

If the speakers knows they are causing offense by using a word that was used to subjugate slaves, it starts to look like an extension of that racial subjugation. The word was used by speakers of a different language, and didn’t historically have the same meaning in Norway. But given the increased cultural and economic integration present in modern society, we all have to become a little bit aware of issues that are a…

I think "cultural prohibition" of words is generally bad, extending to words that are forbidden in the US. The idea of "privileged words" that only a subset of people can utter is ridiculous to me. It's particularly egregious when it is essentially American imperialism on language used in other countries.

> To answer your question more directly: The onus is mostly on the people who were subjugated to continue suffering the lasting effects of that.

They are required to suffer the lasting effects of racist policies past or present. There is zero responsibility to be offended by homonyms of offensive terms.

> The burden on the people who find out that a word they use causes harm seems quite small in comparison (a good example of a “first world problem”). Whether that burden is too harsh to bear is up to each individual.

There shouldn't be a burden on them, period. A person being offended by homonyms is a result of their own stupidity. The only exception to that being someone saying said homonyms in bad faith... which clearly isn't the case here.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#404

Post by svrb »

joshuamorton wrote: post #399
svrb wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't, but I believe "cancel culture" is entirely defined by the left, so again I find the notion of the left being "open-minded" entirely contrary to all lived experience. Can you point to a single piece of evidence for the left being more open-minded?

Gay marriage is still openly advocated against by the right.

How does that demonstrate open-mindedness by the left? The left is (ostensibly) universally supportive of LGBT rights. Liking the in-group is not a demonstration of open-mindedness.

(Unless, of course, you're saying there's something inherently out-group about LGBT; i.e., there's something inherently wrong with it. It would not be charitable of me to assume that this is what you meant, but it's the only way I can make "Supporting LGBT is a demonstration of open-mindedness" into a true sentence. Otherwise... it's never the case that supporting any group—other than the out-group, i.e., the morally wrong group—is a demonstration of open-mindedness. So I don't think it applies to LGBT.)

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#405

Post by Klinky »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #381
Klinky wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is obviously nuance, but if the word sounds like a slur, and is used generally to describe people of a certain race, then the offended can certainly express their offense, and the culture should consider the offended person's position. In this case I am pretty sure the word is "neger", and yeah, I don't think we should mourn or handwring over any sort of great loss of Norweigian culture/heritage that has occurr…

Why should Norway evolve based on American norms or history? This is a form of American cultural colonialism.

Looking into it, it does not look like this is solely influenced by American "cultural colonialism". Objections to the use have also been from black people who are not from the US. There may be some level of cultural ignorance regarding the connotations of the term, and its place in history. It seems "Americanisation" is often blamed, and "best/good intentions" used as an excuse to continue to use a word that offends.

There is an interesting paper by Marianne Gullestad that goes into some of the previous historical debate over the term, it is not newly controversial. Culture continues to evolve.

https://www.antropologi.info/blog/anthropology/pdf/Gullestad...

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#406

Post by 9HZZRfNlpR »

violetgarden wrote: post #366
BitwiseFool wrote: post #274

Anyone who is taught to look for racism everywhere - no matter how minor - will find it everywhere. The false-positive rate must be astronomical.

Yes! I am a female in the tech industry, and we are inundated with warnings about going into a male dominated field. I’ve noticed it gets to a point where some women can’t even receive criticism because they think “he wouldn’t talk to another man like that,” even if the criticism is valid. I can see why it happens though. We hear over and over about being harassed and put down that we almost subconsciously get a chip…

O guess these things also depend on country, in Eastern Europe where I'm from many high position successful women leaders have stated that gender quotas are actually offensive and they wouldn't want to be so called diversity hire. I think about it often how Americans who get into somewhere because of their knowledge and skill but are part of some minority think affirmative action (discrimination for us), it would be obvious for people to suspect then they are only there because of lowered exceptions.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#407

Post by baby »

thinkingemote wrote: post #181

For those thinking it's crazy, consider how we assume seeing trigger warnings for rape etc before certain content are normal and approved in our societies. It could be simply a cry for a trigger warning: this lecture may contain words which sound similar to words which cause trauma. Sounds okay to me. I predict that you will see these trigger warnings before Chinese subtitled films, lectures which talks about the Chi…

if you're that sensitive you shouldn't try to learn about another culture

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#408

Post by marvin »

Klinky wrote: post #312
phkahler wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Uttering a word someone finds offensive "with the best intentions" doesn't make it less offensive. It was a Norwegian word probably new to those offended. Isnt the offense absurd? Nobody should bend for that.

I am guessing the word here is "neger", and is more akin to the US use of the word "negro" than the slur "Ni er"[looks like HN censors even my censored version of the slur to "Nier"]. Even in the US "negro" has mostly fallen out of general use, and is considered derogatory in most casual contexts.

As mentioned in sibling thread, unless GP is 80 years old and has had their head in the sand for the last 30 of them, the word in question is likely "svart" (black) rather than "neger" (negro).

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#409

Post by krapp »

svrb wrote: post #382
krapp wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you believe "the left" is entirely defined by "cancel culture?"

I don't, but I believe "cancel culture" is entirely defined by the left, so again I find the notion of the left being "open-minded" entirely contrary to all lived experience. Can you point to a single piece of evidence for the left being more open-minded?

>I don't, but I believe "cancel culture" is entirely defined by the left, so again I find the notion of the left being "open-minded" entirely contrary to all lived experience.

So.. you actually do. Otherwise the idea of an open minded leftist wouldn't be incomprehensible to you.

> Can you point to a single piece of evidence for the left being more open-minded?

Leftist philosophy has its roots in the French Revolution and the Renaissance, it and the left/right political axis wasn't invented on Tumblr. Traditionally, leftist belief tends to be the secular and progressive counterpart to the conservatism and religious ideology of the right, so by definition, the left tends to be open to new ideas, whereas the right wants to maintain the status quo.

The left was more open minded about secular science versus religion when the right was burning heretics.

The left was more open minded about the viability of models of government other than rule by the Church and a King. The Magna Carta, Declaration of the Rights of Man and US Constitution are all leftist in principle.

The left is more open minded about sexual identity, accepting LGBT culture and nonbinary gender identity, as opposed to the right.

The left is more open minded about race and gender roles, being the side that embraces civil rights and feminism, rather than the right.

The left is more open minded about sexual expression than the right, which still believes any sexual expression outside of monogamous, heterosexual marriage is immoral.

The left is more open minded about cultural and artistic expression than the right. The left writes most of the books that get burned and movies that get banned, because the left is the side constantly transgressing societal norms (which makes them more open minded about than the right in that regard.)

The hacker ethos[0] is entirely leftist, and I can't think of a more open minded philosophy. The right definitely would not have come up with something that threatened the gatekeepers and information brokers keeping Ma Bell, the big 3 tv networks and newspapers at the top of the information pyramid.

And here's something that will blow your mind - not every leftist agrees with cancel culture. Leftists are even more open minded about that than the right, which, like yourself, seems to see the left as some kind of SJW hivemind.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#410

Post by baby »

koonsolo wrote: post #142

Am I the only one who finds it very ironic that you can't use the "n-word" because it offends the African American community. Yet when you listen to rap music, it's all nigga this and nigga that. Makes me wonder if these offended students first complain, and then drive home singing along with Snoop Dogg.

I agree, as a non-American this thing is really weird, what's even weirder is that people can't even say the word. It reminds me of Harry Potter and how they call Voldermort as "the one who cannot be named" or something similar. This is really interesting as I don't think I've heard of another culture where some words are avoided in this way, by literally beeping the word in real life. I guess beeping is a big thing in the US after all.
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