Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge • Hacker News Board

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#291

Post by phkahler » Mon, Sep 07, 2020, 6:53 PM UTC

Klinky wrote: post #252

kebman wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Norwegian word for blacks used to be something that isn't allowed to be uttered anymore. It started becoming a problem only after we got a few black American migrants, and other migrants influenced by American culture to Norway. These people didn't understand the context of the word, and so they became violently offended when anyone used the word, even if the the word has always been a completely harmless descrip…

Uttering a word someone finds offensive "with the best intentions" doesn't make it less offensive. If you continue to utter the word, then your intentions are probably not as pure as you think.

>> Uttering a word someone finds offensive "with the best intentions" doesn't make it less offensive.

It was a Norwegian word probably new to those offended. Isnt the offense absurd? Nobody should bend for that.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#292

Post by darkerside » Mon, Sep 07, 2020, 6:53 PM UTC

pas wrote: post #211

eru wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with 'there is a big group amplifying the outrage', actually. I am not sure a majority is necessary. There's no magic happening at 50%.

You're right, just a vocal minority, let's say a plurality is enough.

With Twitter, now all it takes is one person and maybe 100 stars (none of which may actually be real). The "mouthpiece of democracy" is completely broken.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#293

Post by darawk » Mon, Sep 07, 2020, 6:53 PM UTC

geofft wrote: post #268

hintymad wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is hardly surprising. We used to have lots of civil social discourse. Media, elites, and intellectuals would engage in such discourse and would present sometimes opposing thoughts. Only with such discourse will there be no room for radicals. And look what's been happening, moderates of a few years ago would be considered far-right today. Anyone with different opinions, now matter what reasons they offer, will be…

I think you're making your own counterargument: if you prioritize civil discourse, you necessarily exclude radicals - you've limited the space of discourse by insisting that the only acceptable propositions are those that people can reliably be civil about. Fewer people were making extreme claims, but many of those extreme claims could have been debated rationally, were people interested in doing so. It is a Potemkin…

Radical ideas can be presented just as civilly as conservative ideas. Noam Chomsky does a perfectly fine job of being civil.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#294

Post by whiddershins » Mon, Sep 07, 2020, 6:54 PM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #278

This action is so obviously wrong I can't but wonder if its not some prank. It would be an ideal prank for the Chinese in particular, to audit the course (at first as an attempt to see how Chinese language and culture is taught here), and then stumble upon this coincidental pronunciation, in the context of a tinder-dry atmosphere of political correctness, and send in (multiple) complaints and watch America burn just…

It would never be accidental. In China, English language students are taught to break that habit for fear of it being misinterpreted by a native English speaker.

It could be opportunistically malicious though, to feign outrage. That’s not beyond the realm of possibility at all.

Edit: people are asking how I ‘know’ this.

——

It is anecdotal, so I should have phrased it more carefully. When I was in mainland China about 15 years ago I talked to several people eager to practice their English, in various regions.

They were aware. One kid in particular I remember vividly having that conversation.

But this was a very small sample.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#295

Post by least » Mon, Sep 07, 2020, 6:55 PM UTC

Klinky wrote: post #252

kebman wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Norwegian word for blacks used to be something that isn't allowed to be uttered anymore. It started becoming a problem only after we got a few black American migrants, and other migrants influenced by American culture to Norway. These people didn't understand the context of the word, and so they became violently offended when anyone used the word, even if the the word has always been a completely harmless descrip…

Uttering a word someone finds offensive "with the best intentions" doesn't make it less offensive. If you continue to utter the word, then your intentions are probably not as pure as you think.

Why is the onus on the speaker to change their behavior to accommodate a person who's taken offense to a a word that is completely innocuous?

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#296

Post by justinclift » Mon, Sep 07, 2020, 6:55 PM UTC

ascar wrote: post #40

> "Professor Greg Patton repeated several times a Chinese word that sounds very similar to a vile racial slur in English. Understandably, this caused great pain and upset among students, and for that I am deeply sorry. It is simply unacceptable for faculty to use words in class that can marginalize, hurt and harm the psychological safety of our students. We must and we will do better." It's unbelievable that this "un…

For all we know, this could be a disaffected student seeing an easy way to get revenge for not being given the grade they want.

Seems like their current system makes that all too easy.

Also, sounds very open to potential blackmailing of people. :(

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#297

Post by marvin » Mon, Sep 07, 2020, 6:56 PM UTC

Klinky wrote: post #252

kebman wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Norwegian word for blacks used to be something that isn't allowed to be uttered anymore. It started becoming a problem only after we got a few black American migrants, and other migrants influenced by American culture to Norway. These people didn't understand the context of the word, and so they became violently offended when anyone used the word, even if the the word has always been a completely harmless descrip…

Uttering a word someone finds offensive "with the best intentions" doesn't make it less offensive. If you continue to utter the word, then your intentions are probably not as pure as you think.

That seems like an unreasonable statement when meeting a culture that's not your own. Let's say you're offended by the word "blank" because of cultural transgressions that have happened throughout the last 100 years of history in your country.

You then emigrate to a different culture that hasn't experienced the context of these transgressions. The word "blank" is in their language used in a purely descriptive sense. You make it very clear to everyone you meet that you find their word for "blank" offensive, but the local alternatives are more clumsy and those who try to use them will likely confuse or be misunderstood.

I don't consider it reasonable to expect others to conform to your offense in this case; it's a case of forcing a cultural context onto a culture where it doesn't apply.

Americans have a bit of a reputation for this kind of thing, unfortunately. Probably due to the massive export of American culture that was alluded to elsewhere.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#298

Post by ThrowawayR2 » Mon, Sep 07, 2020, 6:56 PM UTC

anonu wrote: post #255

The comment at the end is spot on: Please know that there are many people that support you and are sick of this hyper-sensitive, McCarthyism-like environment that is being fostered across the country." My view on this is it's the culmination of years of anti free speech trends on campus. It's a sad day when universities which should be bastions of tolerance, exploration and ideas have their culture consistently chipp…

I have said this before and will continue to say this: to put an end to this, liberals in the United States need to openly repudiate identity politics progressivism and cancel culture. Former-President Obama has ( https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/31/us/politics/obama-woke-ca... ); we should too.

Please speak up and, more importantly, please vote for old-school liberals instead of progressives.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#299

Post by jeffrallen » Mon, Sep 07, 2020, 6:57 PM UTC

kebman wrote: post #89

dgellow wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without trying to be alarmist, I have a feeling that's slowly spreading to Europe too, at least France and Germany.

The Norwegian word for blacks used to be something that isn't allowed to be uttered anymore. It started becoming a problem only after we got a few black American migrants, and other migrants influenced by American culture to Norway. These people didn't understand the context of the word, and so they became violently offended when anyone used the word, even if the the word has always been a completely harmless descrip…

Could you send some Norwegians to Ticino? I need help convincing my mother in law to stop saying something just as bad.

I swear, going through the tunnel to Ticino is like going through a time machine.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#300

Post by throwaway9221 » Mon, Sep 07, 2020, 6:58 PM UTC

anonu wrote: post #255

The comment at the end is spot on: Please know that there are many people that support you and are sick of this hyper-sensitive, McCarthyism-like environment that is being fostered across the country." My view on this is it's the culmination of years of anti free speech trends on campus. It's a sad day when universities which should be bastions of tolerance, exploration and ideas have their culture consistently chipp…

It's not confined to universities, either. This growing list of "forbidden words" is making its way into the corporate world, too. Coupled with spineless HR who don't know how to constructively deal with people who claim to be offended. My current company is undertaking a massive, probably thousand man-year (sorry, person-year), effort to scrub all its internal and external documentation and even source code of any forbidden words, replacing them with, for now, non-triggering words. Not one person, to my knowledge has even politely questioned publicly whether this was a good use of company funds. If I was a shareholder I'd be outraged.

A small, core group of people loudly make this a huge issue of great importance, while the rest of us just want to get our work done and stay silent so we don't get fired by the woke patrol.

Honestly I can't wait until retirement when I don't have to constantly be walking on eggshells at work. It's sad--I used to love working in tech but it's insufferable now.