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Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu

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Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#391

Post by danmaz74 »

kebman wrote: post #89
dgellow wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without trying to be alarmist, I have a feeling that's slowly spreading to Europe too, at least France and Germany.

The Norwegian word for blacks used to be something that isn't allowed to be uttered anymore. It started becoming a problem only after we got a few black American migrants, and other migrants influenced by American culture to Norway. These people didn't understand the context of the word, and so they became violently offended when anyone used the word, even if the the word has always been a completely harmless descrip…

The same happened in Italy, but I think that the change happened after dubbed American movies started using the Italian word to translate the n word. This associated the originally neutral word to offensive contexts, so the word meaning started changing for those who learned it in those contexts.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#392

Post by pixel_fcker »

frereubu wrote: post #379
pixel_fcker wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a perfect example of why micro-aggressions are bullshit. Any right-thinking person can see that those taking offence to this are wrong, while the theory of micro-aggressions posits that because they are offended their feelings are valid and the professor must be in the wrong.

That's not the way I understand microaggressions, which aren't to do with whether someone is offended or not. The idea is that if, for example, you're black, and day in, day out, there are lots of little things that on their own aren't worth being upset about (for example, people not holding the door for you, pushing in front of you in line, crossing the road rather than walk past you, assume you're low-level staff r…

From Wikipedia:

> Microaggression is a term used for brief and commonplace daily verbal or behavioural indignities, whether intentional or unintentional

It’s the unintentional part that I take issue with, which means that it’s not on you to understand the context of my statement, it’s on me to imagine the infinite variety of ways you might interpret my statement and vet them for possible insensitivity before making it, which is obviously impossible.

I agree that your definition makes perfect sense but I don’t think the sort of people who spend a lot of time worrying about micro-aggressions agree that the intention of the “aggressor” matters, as is perfectly evinced by this situation:

> “We would rather not take his course than to endure the emotional exhaustion of carrying on with an instructor that disregards cultural diversity and sensitivities and by extension creates an unwelcome environment for us Black students.”

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#393

Post by Rebelgecko »

bonoboTP wrote: post #136
spaniard89277 wrote: post #95

Honestly, I'm shocked everytime I read this stuff from american universities. Why is this happening? Because it's not the first nor second time that I read about events similar to this one.

The leadership is afraid of getting canceled themselves by not acting concerned enough, so they try to save their asses by running in front. Just a way to hold on to one's job in the current environment. I don't think they are true believers.

I think this is the right answer. The previous dean was fired due to having a high number of discrimination complaints in the business school while he was in charge. Even though IIRC something like 95% of the complaints were deemed to be unwarranted

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#394

Post by marvin »

Klinky wrote: post #324
marvin wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like an unreasonable statement when meeting a culture that's not your own. Let's say you're offended by the word "blank" because of cultural transgressions that have happened throughout the last 100 years of history in your country. You then emigrate to a different culture that hasn't experienced the context of these transgressions. The word "blank" is in their language used in a purely descriptive sense.…

There is obviously nuance, but if the word sounds like a slur, and is used generally to describe people of a certain race, then the offended can certainly express their offense, and the culture should consider the offended person's position. In this case I am pretty sure the word is "neger", and yeah, I don't think we should mourn or handwring over any sort of great loss of Norweigian culture/heritage that has occurr…

The word in question is not "neger", it's "svart". Translating to "negro" and "black", respectively. The former has been considered old-fashioned or pejorative for a couple of decades, the latter has only recently become disputed.

The politically correct version for "svart", would be "med mørk hudfarge" ("with dark skin color") or, if you want to push the edge of propritey, "mørkhudet" ("dark-skinned").

And sure. If someone takes offense or are clearly hurt by it, it's not like I'll go out of my way to insult them. But it's five syllables where one would convey the same meaning, without any intention of offense. It's not a hill I'd choose to die on, but as a matter of principle... I'd very much prefer if we wouldn't adopt an excessive fear of insult here.

I'm pretty sure that most people who take offense at this, are taking offense on behalf of others. Which is in itself a somewhat superior or paternalistic attitude that I'm not sure that all minorities appreciate.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#395

Post by sudosteph »

crc32 wrote: post #389

I can’t believe the reactionary comments to this. Of course, we have no idea of the context. But if it was anything like the linked video - and it could have been worse - it’s perfectly understandable why students would be surprised and perhaps upset. If you disagree, its worth asking yourself, what reaction would you expect if you were a chinese professor enunciating the word “cunt” during a lecture, with no prior w…

That video IS the context. It's Covid era - everything is streamed. We are all watching the same thing the students saw.

And if a Chinese professor prefaced the use of that word with an explanation about that word's usage in another language, I would find that a very memorable educational experience. That's it. I don't need to be warned about a sound because a similar sound with a different meaning is used in negative ways.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#396

Post by baby »

Nbox9 wrote: post #301
tgv wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's apparently a common word, a demonstrative pronoun, similar to "that". Pretty hard to avoid without language acrobatics.

Did you watch the video of him using it? While it’s a very common phrase while speaking Mandarin, and while I do not think this is a fireable offense, the professor could have chosen one of dozens of other examples in his lecture very easily.

Dude I've lived in China and people just say it exactly like he said it in the video (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvnx1wcrbcg)

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#398

Post by burfog »

violetgarden wrote: post #366
BitwiseFool wrote: post #274

Anyone who is taught to look for racism everywhere - no matter how minor - will find it everywhere. The false-positive rate must be astronomical.

Yes! I am a female in the tech industry, and we are inundated with warnings about going into a male dominated field. I’ve noticed it gets to a point where some women can’t even receive criticism because they think “he wouldn’t talk to another man like that,” even if the criticism is valid. I can see why it happens though. We hear over and over about being harassed and put down that we almost subconsciously get a chip…

That sounds like the robustness principle, featured in RFC 1855 (Netiquette Guidelines) among others: "Be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others" or "Be conservative in what you send and liberal in what you receive."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#399

Post by joshuamorton »

svrb wrote: post #382
krapp wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you believe "the left" is entirely defined by "cancel culture?"

I don't, but I believe "cancel culture" is entirely defined by the left, so again I find the notion of the left being "open-minded" entirely contrary to all lived experience. Can you point to a single piece of evidence for the left being more open-minded?

Gay marriage is still openly advocated against by the right.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#400

Post by baby »

crc32 wrote: post #389

I can’t believe the reactionary comments to this. Of course, we have no idea of the context. But if it was anything like the linked video - and it could have been worse - it’s perfectly understandable why students would be surprised and perhaps upset. If you disagree, its worth asking yourself, what reaction would you expect if you were a chinese professor enunciating the word “cunt” during a lecture, with no prior w…

Do you get upset when you learn the word for "black" in spanish?
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