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BitTorrent v2

blog.libtorrent.org

61–70 of 576 posts

Re: BitTorrent v2

#61
post #30
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean beside being responsible for ~50% of the global internet traffic in 2009? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent

Insofar as the majority of that traffic is likely illegal (in terms of sharing pirated property) I would not consider it useful.

useful != legal

Re: BitTorrent v2

#62
I remember one of the original bittorrent guys asking for help/recruiting on some IRC channel. He said it was a transformative project. He was laughed off as the next "wanna create mmorpg" guy. For once they were wrong.

Re: BitTorrent v2

#63
post #44
post #3

I've written a torrent client, and I'm skeptical than v2 will ever catch on. While it does solve some minor problems, it's not a large enough leap forward to justify the costs.

I don’t know much about protocol version pacing, but was lack of substantial changes part of the reason it has taken 12 full years to get a client to support v2? http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0052.html

3 years, not 12. BEP 52 was based on BEP 3 and kept the same metadata, including the creation date.

http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0003.html

Re: BitTorrent v2

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't ISPs bill by the gigabyte and be done with it?

Why won't ISPs stop advertising 'unlimited' service that is actually limited to N gigabytes a month, where N is substantially lower than what's possible given the speeds they provide? Because they can get away with it.

Because it is insanely expensive to actually provide that. The nature of internet traffic is short bursts, not 100% utilization. In a commercial setting you can purchase fixed pipes that are entirely yours and they’re tens or hundreds of times more expensive.

Why wouldn’t you want to pool bandwidth with your neighbors so you could all get faster speeds when you were using it instead of rate limiting everyone?

Re: BitTorrent v2

#65

It feels like this isn't a large enough leap forward. It would be nice if BitTorrent v2 made it harder for ISPs to identify what is bit torrent traffic. AT&T artificially slows down upload speeds.

Why would the that be the protocol's responsibility?

Maybe not 'responsibility', but I guess it'd be nice to have some kind of proxy protocol so that seeders can proxy requests for people with annoying ISPs.. or they could just use a VPN like everyone else =P

Re: BitTorrent v2

#66
post #11

To me, BitTorrent feels a lot like Blockchain: interesting tech that doesn't seem to be able to find a practical and useful application (proportionate to the attendant hype). Which is not to say that either can't, they just haven't yet. Why? EDIT: while I don't (yet) consider myself delirious, responses to this comment have illuminated how little I know about the influence and application of BitTorrent. In other word…

You're delirious.

Setting aside the fact that BitTorrent came about long before BitCoin was a glint in Satoshi's eye, it's still massively used for content distribution, on top of being a foundational technology to several industrial applications: Apache Spark, for example, uses BitTorrent to shuffle/broadcast data around cluster nodes.

Even when BitTorrent alternatives are used in its place (such as IPFS, Dat, or Kademlia), BT was still a massive influence in all of their designs, and to the design of any other DHT that came about after its release.

All of these, plus other systems that are (in abstract) similar constructions, have several industrial applications for asset distribution (Netflix uses IPFS to distribute container images internally [0], Uber and Alibaba do similar things) and network management (DNS for example, is really just a DHT, as are several other network protocols)

Ever since BitTorrent came about, it has unequivocally been a resounding success. It never for a moment had to look for applications, there were already plenty since day one.

[0] https://blog.ipfs.io/2020-02-14-improved-bitswap-for-contain...

Re: BitTorrent v2

#67

It would be nice to have a torrent system where noone that is uploading has all the data for a specific torrent (or at least they arent uploading the whole file to any specfic person... probably would be harder to prosecute in the event that some files become illegal)... You could take 1% of the billonaire's fortune and give it to the "victims" and everyone would be happy.

No reason you can't do this with the existing protocol. I'm not sure how much it helps from a legal POV and i suppose it depends upon your threat model, but, its fairly trivially doable.

Re: BitTorrent v2

#68

It would be nice to have a torrent system where noone that is uploading has all the data for a specific torrent (or at least they arent uploading the whole file to any specfic person... probably would be harder to prosecute in the event that some files become illegal)... You could take 1% of the billonaire's fortune and give it to the "victims" and everyone would be happy.

If you want to circumvent the law, you must find a legal technicality, not a technical technicality.

The key weakness in every smartass technical technicality to circumvent the law is forgetting that intent is core concept when the law is interpreted in the court.

Did the defendant have intent to do X? Did the defendant use some purpose build technique to avoid doing the most literal interpretation X ? .. Yeah, defendant is guilty of doing X.

Re: BitTorrent v2

#69

It feels like this isn't a large enough leap forward. It would be nice if BitTorrent v2 made it harder for ISPs to identify what is bit torrent traffic. AT&T artificially slows down upload speeds.

Why don't ISPs bill by the gigabyte and be done with it?

Some thought experiments for you to try:

- Does this guarantee that you get the speed that you pay for? If not, then should the price during heavy congestion cost less per GB? I’ve had the unfortunate luck of having lived in areas where the internet is unusable for anything other than email and light browsing during peak hours. Bonus: Do you know why this happens? If not, I encourage you to research this.

- How will this affect the advertising model of the entire internet economy? If you, like me, have lived your whole life on a mobile data plan that is priced based on data usage, you’ll realize just how much bandwidth is consumed by advertisements (worst are the video/audio types that auto play).

- How will this affect “future” technology such at smart homes? Most devices send data back (Amazon Echo devices) and the growing security camera ecosystem that sends recordings to the cloud would suddenly cost users a ton more.

- Speaking of cloud, what will happen to the gaming industry that is heavily cloud based? Many games don’t even ship in a completed state anymore. Instead, part of the install requires downloading a ton of additional updates. Not to mention online play, DLC, etc.

There a many many more everyday examples like this that would be heavily affected by pricing per GB. Your question sounds like a simple solution but like many things in life, that is rarely the case.

Re: BitTorrent v2

#70
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uploading parts of illegal files is equivalent from a security perspective. It seems like there's no advantage to your proposal. The Whonix wiki has an incredible amount of information on topics such as this: https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Documentation Basically, it's very hard to protect the security of users when a government seeks to prosecute dissidents. There's a lot to take into account. A simple "we saw an uploa…

Ideally, you'd want to come up with some way to pack files such that many files share the same chunks. Perhaps you could make the act of sharing (all or most of the) legal and illegal files indistinguishable.

You could have a protocol where every block of the file is actually two "random" blocks XOR'd together, but this doesn't really work. If you create a new 1GB torrent, you'll need 1GB of new (never seen before) blocks with ~100% probability, so it will be obvious who's seeding the data.

Or you could make the block size smaller (e.g. 1 bit) and tell the lawyers to piss off because 0 and 1 are public domain.

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