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Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

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Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#61
post #23

My two cents on the RSI and fast typing. I learned typing 40 years ago, in the same way as secretaries do, with a real mechanical typewriter (an Olivetti one), and following an standard typewriter course for 2 months. My parents and relatives also used mechanical typewriters for 20 years before (8 hours a day). The writer says "CapsLock is useless... remap". I have seen that statement a lot of times, and I deeply fee…

Hi, I'm the author, I would love to know more about proper typing training, I've never heard of such a thing beyond touch typing. Do you have any suggested online resources or books for where I could start?

Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#62
> Mechanical keys don’t help

I've used QWERTY for decades on whatever keyboard came with each machine. In the past year I've had fits of 'shooting nerve pains' along the back of my hands and forearms when I couldn't type for days. Since then, I've switched my typing style to more of a striking than pressing motion and also using a mechanical keyboard--no discomfort since.

> Learn Dvorak…unless you use vim

It's weird that vi and command-line have separate motor memories from typing words. I'm still trying to relearn them.

I also did go down that rabbit-hole of custom layouts, starting with a naive 'lets just shuffle a few keys' to a custom alternative to Colemak/Soul/Niro that I independently/incrementally arrived at.

If I were restarting from the beginning I would suggest MTGAP, it seems the most efficient. And I highly recommend Stevep99's keyboard layout analyzer[0].

In case anyone's curious, the layout I ended up using is Qwicker (aka KFLY)[1]

[0] https://stevep99.github.io/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/config

[1] https://github.com/qwickly-org/Qwicker

Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using an Ergodox for about a year now, but never noticed any latency issues of any kind. This is just using standard Cherry MX brown switches. Perhaps the issue was something else? At the end of the day I think it's a matter of taste/preference. Some like mechanical keyboards (i.e. me), others don't. That's fine, just pick whatever works for you :)

I didn't do any testing to figure out where the latency came from, but the article was pretty thorough in documenting the palpable difference between Ergodox and e.g. the Apple Magic keyboard. I managed to dig it up for you: https://danluu.com/keyboard-latency/ Come to think of it, I might have incurred some latency myself with the particular layout I'd brewed; some keys had dual meanings depending on whether I held…

> https://danluu.com/keyboard-latency/

I'm surprised the HHKB2 scores better than the Ergodox. I used one for years but found it to type more sluggish. I suspect this is due to Topre switches requiring a bit more force to push down.

> Come to think of it, I might have incurred some latency myself with the particular layout I'd brewed

Oh yeah, the dual-function keys are horrible latency wise. I tried various ways of reducing this, but you end up having to choose between high latency or low latency but keys not registering. I ended up not using dual-function keys because of this. This is a bummer, because the concept is great.

The Ergodox/QMK does let you tweak the USB polling rate, but I haven't really taken a good look at this yet.

> I kind of still want a mechanical keyboard that has extreme amounts of click and clack, just because it feels so nice to type with. I just don't know which model I'd pick, and it'd be pretty expensive for something I'd only use occasionally.

Personally I'd love to see something like the Ergodox, but a bit more compact (e.g. no thumb cluster), and half the height. Height especially is something that seems overlooked with mechanical keyboards. This is a shame, as I suspect it's easier to keep your hands/arms at the right angle with a flatter keyboard.

Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#64

DVORAK has long been debunked. It was a fraudulent study conducted by the US navy. The transition into dvorak will slow you; the constant need to setup your key layout on new computers will slow you, the inability to use other computers quickly will slow you, the inability for others to use computers you've setup will be a problem... https://reason.com/1996/06/01/typing-errors/

That was interesting to read. But does it really apply today? The lost Navy study was made in even pre-cubicle times. And even as a cubicler maybe bring-your-own(-typing)-device could apply? Not to mention work-from-home.

Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#65

It honestly surprises me that the evolution of ergonomic keyboards has been so slow. Sure, we have plenty of split keyboards now, but we don't have any commercially available DataHand-like designs [1]. Watch someone type with a DataHand you'll see that they barely need to move their fingers at all [2]! The best similarly ergonomic designs we have at the moment are a gaming keypad [3] and some DYI projects [4]. [1] ht…

Oh! Azeron... at first sight I thought gamer crap, but after exploring a little I thought WOW!

Very interesting. Now it only lacks integration of something like the Spacemouse from 3dconnexion.

Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#66
post #23

My two cents on the RSI and fast typing. I learned typing 40 years ago, in the same way as secretaries do, with a real mechanical typewriter (an Olivetti one), and following an standard typewriter course for 2 months. My parents and relatives also used mechanical typewriters for 20 years before (8 hours a day). The writer says "CapsLock is useless... remap". I have seen that statement a lot of times, and I deeply fee…

How should a trained professional be using caps lock?

Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#67
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always used vim and I have a "custom/natural hand position" and am not at all sure how or why you are feeling the need to use all five fingers... I find vim extremely effective even on an iPhone pecking with my thumbs.

That's a good point, it was an overstatement to say I was forced to switch. The reason I did is because I naturally rest my right hand with my index finger at the gap between the i/o/9 or o/p/0 keys and the rest of the hand stretched comfortably, but all the vim tutorials I'd read suggest you should rest your hand at the home row. If I rest my hand like that, it forces me to use the touch typing technique that I dili…

Yeah... just ignore those people. I appreciate why they say that, but they probably say that about typing in general or something. You do you, and vim will still be your friend at the end of the day.

Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#68
post #23

My two cents on the RSI and fast typing. I learned typing 40 years ago, in the same way as secretaries do, with a real mechanical typewriter (an Olivetti one), and following an standard typewriter course for 2 months. My parents and relatives also used mechanical typewriters for 20 years before (8 hours a day). The writer says "CapsLock is useless... remap". I have seen that statement a lot of times, and I deeply fee…

Hi, I'm the author, I would love to know more about proper typing training, I've never heard of such a thing beyond touch typing. Do you have any suggested online resources or books for where I could start?

Nice article, i'm sorry you have developed RSI at a young age.

I was trained when I was a teenager near 40 years ago. I don't keep those training materials, but I will try to summarize it. I think most of the materials are now in the memories of the 60s/70s years old. But there are some online resources [0], a video is not like an teacher in the 80s, but it can help.

My training was directed by a teacher (female, old, no jokes, focused, loved her work). Now I known there is a big difference having a teacher, she can correct you. It's like heavy lifting, everybody can try to pull a bar. But there are small mistakes that can be corrected, and will avoid common injuries.

The first day in the training, was about "position". The teacher corrected me for the first week (a lot of times, teenagers are stubborn). The first day was about:

* sitting position.

* forearm, wrist, hand position. The forearm, the wrist and the hand shall be aligned. Somehow floating, but not floating, resting with no pressure even typing. It's difficult to describe but this video [0] of the 50s can help.

* Not placing the forearm aligned with the hand is one of the most common mistakes in people. Some people align the thumbnails of both hands, that's a mistake that put pressure on the wrist and forearm muscles. The ergonomic keyboards are designed to correct this, and to return the hand/forearm to the right alignment. There are some videos from the 50 [2], mentioning this.

* Shoulder shall be relaxed, one effect of not having proper forearm/hand alignment is also compression in the shoulder.

* Training for IBM Selectric and training for a mechanical typewriters was mostly similar. But everybody begins with the mechanical ones. You need to "hammer" the mechanical ones. They needed more pressure and force using the fingers (not the wrist). When changing to the Selectric, the words/minute increased automatically. They keys do not jam due to fast typing, and the Selectric has memory and automatic carriage returns. But position, and memory muscles remained.

* Stretch the hands at the end. (I was forced to do it and can't go out of school immediately after finish assignment). Now, 40 years after, I know it helps after long typing sessions, but as a teenager it was another boring rule to break.

* Caps-locks: I see a lot of comment in this thread about cap-locks. Each of us shall use the flow that best suits their work. But for me, I have memory muscle of using the Caps when there are more than two continuous uppercase. It's intuitive, i don't think about it. When it's not there, my memory muscle rebels. My hands feel it deeply wrong due to two months of training 40 years ago. If remapping caps fits you, go for it.

* Shift balance. Only one finger from each hand at the same time. This avoid forced positions in a single hand. (applies also to ctrl and special characters).

* Space-key balance. space pressed with the opposite thumb to the previous used hand.

Once you were properly in position, the finger training begins (repetition of key patterns). But for the few first days, the teacher corrected us the position continuously (interrupting the key repetition). After a few days: the focus on position, changed to focus on typing mistakes. Nobody went out of the room until they completed the exercises without errors. For me that means expending two hours instead of one like my school mates that were there for one only one hour.

I don't keep materials, but looking for similar books, this "Elementary Typewriting I"[3] from 1960 gives some hints. I'm pretty sure, back in the days, there were a lot of methods.

Check the us navy film [0]. The position was also their first lesson. Those days, clerks spends 8 hours of continuous typing, and an injury means full stop.

[0] US Navy training material, first day. Emphasis on position. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1e4BC41wRU

[1] 1930 contests. Show the position of clerks using mechanical typewriters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-x9JX8ypJ0

[2] common typing mistakes. Use your fingers, not the wrist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mQszbUhE30

[3] US Army book on typewriting https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=K_f3apVfwOYC&...

Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#69
post #52
post #23

My two cents on the RSI and fast typing. I learned typing 40 years ago, in the same way as secretaries do, with a real mechanical typewriter (an Olivetti one), and following an standard typewriter course for 2 months. My parents and relatives also used mechanical typewriters for 20 years before (8 hours a day). The writer says "CapsLock is useless... remap". I have seen that statement a lot of times, and I deeply fee…

Caps lock is not useless, but its placement is totally inappropriate, and this has nothing to do with how trained you are. In English text, and most programming languages, most of the text is in one case (usually lower), with small runs (often only one character long) in the other case. For runs of one case switched character, shift will almost always beat caps lock because of the need to hit caps lock again to get b…

Right, it was an skill of the old days, when typewriting was done for copying papers and transcribing in mechanical or Selectric machines.

Note also there are two shift. They were designed to use with the opposite hand to the key being type. So only one finger in each hand is pressing the keyboard, that applies to uppercase and for special characters. This also alleviates RSI.

On my case, its late to change the memory muscle, so I use the caps when there are more than two upper keys. Same happens to oldies like me, that were trained in the 60s/70s/80s. We still use both shifts and the capslocks. And I usually recognize those that were trained like me by the way the type.

Re: Fast Typing: Keyboard Layouts

#70
post #23

My two cents on the RSI and fast typing. I learned typing 40 years ago, in the same way as secretaries do, with a real mechanical typewriter (an Olivetti one), and following an standard typewriter course for 2 months. My parents and relatives also used mechanical typewriters for 20 years before (8 hours a day). The writer says "CapsLock is useless... remap". I have seen that statement a lot of times, and I deeply fee…

How should a trained professional be using caps lock?

Typewriting was an skill in the XX century. In order to reach high words/min, you need to develop memory muscle and avoid typing errors.

Those days, a single typing error means repeat a full page. With modern word processor that have disappear.

It was common to have two or more caps in a row.

There are two shift. They were designed to use with the opposite hand to the key being type. So only one finger in each hand is pressing the keyboard, that applies to uppercase and special characters. Fast typing means you avoid errors and balance the hands. For uppercase/special chars you need both hands, one pressing the shift, the other pressing the key.

When there were two or more characters, the operator switch to caps, it was easier, faster. The memory muscle was developed.

Back in the days, mechanical machines don't have italics, only one font, and bold was tricky in some machines. This applies also for Selectric, nobody changed the ball in the middle on a text. So uppercase was used for emphasis.

That's how a trained professional used caps lock 40 years ago. Currently, it depends on your text input.

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