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The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

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Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#71

Post by Retric »

seibelj wrote: post #37

I disagree with criticisms of current art or “pop” art like pop music, popular fiction books, etc. To become broadly popular you must appeal to as many people as possible. This is a balancing act between mediocrity and edginess that pushes just the right amount of boundaries to feel “new” and “fresh” without turning off a lot of people. So by definition the most popular song in the world is going to usually be fairly…

Music never gets truly widespread appeal across society let alone globally. The highest selling album of the last 25 years was 1997’s Shania Twain Come On Over at 29.6 million copies verified and 40 million claimed. Bump that to all time and you hit 1982’s Michael Jackson Thriller at 47.3m verified and 66m calmed which had both people buying multiple copies over time and multi generational appeal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums

Not that everyone who likes a song buys it, but regional sales show vast differences in sales and thus tastes for different albums.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#72

Post by seneca »

matthewmcg wrote: post #34

To me, the decadence observed seems like the result of a decline in regard for and contributions to the welfare of others. Conservative activists have successfully enshrined shareholder primacy in corporate decision making and hostility to public goods and social programs in our politics.

> To me, the decadence observed seems like the result of a decline in regard for and contributions to the welfare of others.

When did the peak in regard for, and contribution to the welfare of, others occur, in your opinion? Looking back through history, I struggle to find a time where it was greater other than perhaps in hunter-gather societies.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#73

Post by Bukhmanizer »

learc83 wrote: post #68
serjester wrote: post #43

While I don't necessarily disagree with his thesis, I think the author cherry picks points and creates a narrative where there isn't one. He mentions the last "shared cultural moment" was Buzz Aldrin landing on the moon. Personally after watching it live, I'd argue Space X launching humans into space is one of those "moments". This all comes down to your own interpretation of the events and there's so many other exam…

The last shared cultural "moment" was much more recent--the COVID lockdown.

Probably more accurate but there’s probably also a pretty big urban/rural divide.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#74

Post by watwut »

bzb5 wrote: post #22
pjc50 wrote: post #3

Well, there's something you don't see very often these days: conservative intellectuals. The old stalwarts of Ross Douthat and the AEI. The problem is though, if you skip ahead to the conclusion: > [T]he only thing more frightening than the possibility of annihilation is the possibility that our society could coast on forever as it is—like a Rome without an Attila to sack its palaces, or a Nineveh without Yahweh to p…

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.”

The generation that grew during WWI and post it, gifted us with WWII.

Hard times can create hard ressentful men who value low empathy and are eager to unleash hard times on others.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#75

Post by JackFr »

categorybooks wrote: post #65
seibelj wrote: post #37

I disagree with criticisms of current art or “pop” art like pop music, popular fiction books, etc. To become broadly popular you must appeal to as many people as possible. This is a balancing act between mediocrity and edginess that pushes just the right amount of boundaries to feel “new” and “fresh” without turning off a lot of people. So by definition the most popular song in the world is going to usually be fairly…

>So by definition the most popular song in the world is going to usually be fairly non-offensive. Number one song on Spotify as of this moment: "If he ate my ass, he's a bottom feeder" "Beat it up, n-word, catch a charge" "Never lost a fight, but I'm looking for a beating" "I wanna gag, I wanna choke" "Pay my tuition just to kiss me on this wet ass pussy"

If we take the premise to be true, the conclusion to be drawn is that those lyrics are NOT offensive. They way that ridiculous song has been celebrated in the media tells me that’s true.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#76

Post by serjester »

Bukhmanizer wrote: post #49
serjester wrote: post #43

While I don't necessarily disagree with his thesis, I think the author cherry picks points and creates a narrative where there isn't one. He mentions the last "shared cultural moment" was Buzz Aldrin landing on the moon. Personally after watching it live, I'd argue Space X launching humans into space is one of those "moments". This all comes down to your own interpretation of the events and there's so many other exam…

I don’t disagree with: >world progress can’t be binned into a coherent storyline But if you think SpaceX has anywhere close to the cultural impact of the moon landing, you really need to get out of your bubble.

I'll agree with your point but his 4 other examples were "steamship, railroad, assembly line, and commercial aviation" which are comparable. With that said it felt like everyone I knew watched it (I associate with mostly non-techies) so to each his own. But yes the moon landing was on another level.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#77

Post by learc83 »

tremon wrote: post #18
bserge wrote: post #2

Eh, I grew up with the faces on TV constantly blabbering about the "decadent West" and yet my country and most of the ex-USSR has deteriorated worse than any western one. My eyes kind of roll every time someone says decadent society as it reminds me of communist propaganda. Not seeing much of those four horsemen, either.

Not seeing much of those four horsemen, either It doesn't take much effort to find current instances of sword, famine, and plague. Only thing missing is the beasts, but maybe that's because we've already hunted them to extinction. Then again, we've been seeing all four them regularly for over centuries...

>It doesn't take much effort to find current instances of sword, famine, and plague.

And yet those things are affecting fewer people proportionally than at any time in recorded history.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#78

Post by treis »

serjester wrote: post #43

While I don't necessarily disagree with his thesis, I think the author cherry picks points and creates a narrative where there isn't one. He mentions the last "shared cultural moment" was Buzz Aldrin landing on the moon. Personally after watching it live, I'd argue Space X launching humans into space is one of those "moments". This all comes down to your own interpretation of the events and there's so many other exam…

>Personally after watching it live, I'd argue Space X launching humans into space is one of those "moments".

There's no way that Space X launching humans, something we've done dozens of times, is as significant as the first time someone walked on the moon. 94% of households in the US watched that. I'd be surprised if 0.94% of households watched Space X.

That said, he is still wrong. 9/11 was definitely a shared cultural moment. At least shared across the US.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#79

Post by slothtrop »

categorybooks wrote: post #65
seibelj wrote: post #37

I disagree with criticisms of current art or “pop” art like pop music, popular fiction books, etc. To become broadly popular you must appeal to as many people as possible. This is a balancing act between mediocrity and edginess that pushes just the right amount of boundaries to feel “new” and “fresh” without turning off a lot of people. So by definition the most popular song in the world is going to usually be fairly…

>So by definition the most popular song in the world is going to usually be fairly non-offensive. Number one song on Spotify as of this moment: "If he ate my ass, he's a bottom feeder" "Beat it up, n-word, catch a charge" "Never lost a fight, but I'm looking for a beating" "I wanna gag, I wanna choke" "Pay my tuition just to kiss me on this wet ass pussy"

Young people consume top 40 pop, they're the consumer demographic for new pop music.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#80

Post by bigtechdataeng »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #61
MereInterest wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A succinct and pithy saying, but generally incorrect. Historically, good times create a food surplus. A food surplus creates well-nourished armies. Well-nourished armies, for better or for worse, create hard times for everybody else. As I've posted elsewhere in this thread, I would recommend reading the following series of blog posts. https://acoup.blog/2020/01/17/collections-the-fremen-mirage-...

You’re taking it too literally. It’s not about physical strength, it’s about cultural and societal strength and fortitude.

Ah, so it’s a vague unsupported aphorism that purports to explain something unmeasurable?

Just because something is pithy, doesn’t mean it’s true.

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