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The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

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Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#61

Post by toomuchtodo »

MereInterest wrote: post #58
bzb5 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.”

A succinct and pithy saying, but generally incorrect. Historically, good times create a food surplus. A food surplus creates well-nourished armies. Well-nourished armies, for better or for worse, create hard times for everybody else. As I've posted elsewhere in this thread, I would recommend reading the following series of blog posts. https://acoup.blog/2020/01/17/collections-the-fremen-mirage-...

You’re taking it too literally. It’s not about physical strength, it’s about cultural and societal strength and fortitude.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#63

Post by waynenilsen »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #59
waynenilsen wrote: post #39

Unfortunately this site has received the hug of death however anyone that finds such a headline interesting may also find this interesting: "Industrial Society and Its Future" https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/unab... An excerpt from the introduction: > The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. They have greatly increased the life-expectancy of those…

Ah yes, once we get rid of modern technology, I can die of bronchitis five times before age ten (that almost happened), and then be murdered after the next outbreak of Black Plague for using the blood of Christian children to bake my bread (yes, many people actually died because of the Blood Libel). The Enlightenment and Industrial Revolution and their consequences are the only reason I'm not dead several times over,…

> The Enlightenment and Industrial Revolution and their consequences are the only reason I'm not dead several times over, and the only reason I can walk down the street in the place I live today in any kind of safety, so no, I'm really not buying that they were a disaster for the human race.

I completely agree! I do find however that if you read the author's arguments they are not entirely baseless and in many cases are quite relevant to the isolated work from home environment that we face today. The problems offered by the author are well known and interesting however his solutions I disagree with

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#64

Post by eanzenberg »

matthewmcg wrote: post #34

To me, the decadence observed seems like the result of a decline in regard for and contributions to the welfare of others. Conservative activists have successfully enshrined shareholder primacy in corporate decision making and hostility to public goods and social programs in our politics.

Conversely, the rise of entitlement, decrease of attention span and work ethic, and the explosion of dependence on the state successfully enshrined by liberal elites has led to perceived stagnation and continued social frustration between the classes.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#65

Post by categorybooks »

seibelj wrote: post #37

I disagree with criticisms of current art or “pop” art like pop music, popular fiction books, etc. To become broadly popular you must appeal to as many people as possible. This is a balancing act between mediocrity and edginess that pushes just the right amount of boundaries to feel “new” and “fresh” without turning off a lot of people. So by definition the most popular song in the world is going to usually be fairly…

>So by definition the most popular song in the world is going to usually be fairly non-offensive.

Number one song on Spotify as of this moment:

"If he ate my ass, he's a bottom feeder"

"Beat it up, n-word, catch a charge"

"Never lost a fight, but I'm looking for a beating"

"I wanna gag, I wanna choke"

"Pay my tuition just to kiss me on this wet ass pussy"

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#66

Post by eanzenberg »

bluetomcat wrote: post #60
seibelj wrote: post #37

I disagree with criticisms of current art or “pop” art like pop music, popular fiction books, etc. To become broadly popular you must appeal to as many people as possible. This is a balancing act between mediocrity and edginess that pushes just the right amount of boundaries to feel “new” and “fresh” without turning off a lot of people. So by definition the most popular song in the world is going to usually be fairly…

The quality and sophistication of mainstream pop art is an important indicator, though. It is consumed by the majority of the population and gives sense to the "wisdom" of an era. Nowadays you simply don't find any mainstream music approaching the levels of sophistication of, say, 1980s mainstream music. Where's the Dire Straits, the Gary Moore and the David Bowie of the 2010s?

Wasn’t 80’s pop music disco?

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#67

Post by marcus_holmes »

I realise this is a review, not the actual text. But still. This is utter bollocks.

It's typical of non-technical "intellectuals" to completely ignore the main areas of modern human progress, simply because they don't understand them.

e.g. the whole discussion on Art completely ignores Video Games, which are undoubtedly Art, and also an area of rapid innovation and development. Yet they're usually dismissed out of hand because no-one who takes "Art" seriously plays them or understands them.

The whole "we went to the moon and never went back" completely ignores the argument that the moon landing was, right from the start, an uneconomical publicity stunt. The exciting time is now, when space is starting to become economically viable and we have organisations making viable plans to colonise Mars.

The Internet is taken for granted as a method of "chatting", and smartphones as a method of "taking selfies". Again, because the author doesn't understand what vast and wide-reaching achievements these are. Watching a Cambodian tuk-tuk driver watch a YouTube English lesson while parked up waiting for a fare is a modern marvel. Bringing communication and the spread of knowledge to anyone who wants it, wherever they are, is the most important thing to happen to humanity since the invention of agriculture. And yes, it's as disruptive to human societies as agriculture: we should expect our societies to be disturbed by it.

The economic malaise is mostly a result of WW2. Europe was economically destroyed, and the US changed its entire economy to meet the demand (and the USSR moved its entire manufacturing base a thousand miles east in a year, an astounding thing to do). Recovering from that meant that growth was easy because it was coming from such a low base. We've hit the final point of that recovery, and growth isn't so easy any more.

Not everything is perfect. There are some changes we need to make. But please let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. And to anyone writing about modern society: if you don't understand technology, please stop fucking writing about it.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#68

Post by learc83 »

serjester wrote: post #43

While I don't necessarily disagree with his thesis, I think the author cherry picks points and creates a narrative where there isn't one. He mentions the last "shared cultural moment" was Buzz Aldrin landing on the moon. Personally after watching it live, I'd argue Space X launching humans into space is one of those "moments". This all comes down to your own interpretation of the events and there's so many other exam…

The last shared cultural "moment" was much more recent--the COVID lockdown.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#69

Post by Bukhmanizer »

readarticle wrote: post #54
Bukhmanizer wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t disagree with: >world progress can’t be binned into a coherent storyline But if you think SpaceX has anywhere close to the cultural impact of the moon landing, you really need to get out of your bubble.

Yeah, it’s obviously all anecdata here but I don’t run in tech circles outside of work, and genuinely can’t remember a single post, tweet, or meme about Space X that didn’t come from my coworkers or few tech friends. Tiger King though, whew. Even my grandmother tried out her new Netflix subscription with that.

Yeah I think it’s pretty heavily a tech thing. Even in the (biomedical) sciences, I think people are only vaguely aware of what SpaceX is.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#70

Post by bluetomcat »

eanzenberg wrote: post #66
bluetomcat wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quality and sophistication of mainstream pop art is an important indicator, though. It is consumed by the majority of the population and gives sense to the "wisdom" of an era. Nowadays you simply don't find any mainstream music approaching the levels of sophistication of, say, 1980s mainstream music. Where's the Dire Straits, the Gary Moore and the David Bowie of the 2010s?

Wasn’t 80’s pop music disco?

Probably disco was still important, but the mentioned artists were hugely popular and influential, despite not being strictly in the "pop" category.
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