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The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

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Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#41

Post by unishark »

pjc50 wrote: post #3

Well, there's something you don't see very often these days: conservative intellectuals. The old stalwarts of Ross Douthat and the AEI. The problem is though, if you skip ahead to the conclusion: > [T]he only thing more frightening than the possibility of annihilation is the possibility that our society could coast on forever as it is—like a Rome without an Attila to sack its palaces, or a Nineveh without Yahweh to p…

> arguing, effectively, that America is too comfortable and therefore must be destroyed?

I wouldn't describe the author's definition of decadence as synonymous with "comfortable": Sterility, poor response to covid, a lack of economic and technological progress, repetitive "arts" with nothing worth remembering by history.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#42

Post by kaycebasques »

I've felt the "technological sublime" that the article mentions many times when contemplating the internet. Perhaps the only difference is that there wasn't a precise moment to focus attention (e.g. moon landing) and there aren't big fanfare events when new internet infrastructure is created (e.g. a politician nailing a golden spike to complete a railroad).

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#43

Post by serjester »

While I don't necessarily disagree with his thesis, I think the author cherry picks points and creates a narrative where there isn't one. He mentions the last "shared cultural moment" was Buzz Aldrin landing on the moon. Personally after watching it live, I'd argue Space X launching humans into space is one of those "moments". This all comes down to your own interpretation of the events and there's so many other examples in the piece. Narrative fallacy at best, but mostly pseudoscience in my opinion - world progress can't be binned into a coherent storyline.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#44

Post by 082349872349872 »

mothsonasloth wrote: post #36
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #23

This is a fascinating discussion because it hits directly at a topic that civilization-after-civilization has faced throughout history: are we able to reasonably assess whether we are continuing towards growth and progress or stagnation and extinction? Frankly, the historical record is not encouraging. Usually, when this topic comes up people chime in with easy takeaways like "people have always complained about this…

I for one look forward to our new techno-barbarian conquerers pouring out from Steppe.

did you mean these guys? (techno tree advanced) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM8dCGIm6yc&t=27

or these? (techno genre) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FteYOA2cDkg

(they're evidently sweeping out of the steppe in all directions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvW8JEuIo58 )

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#45

Post by invalidOrTaken »

moksly wrote: post #7

> But there is also the possibility of a worst case that he describes in a chapter titled “Catastrophe.” Suppose that climate change has created an uninhabitable equator. The aging advanced nations cannot sustain their deficit-financed prosperity. The population of Africa continues its rapid growth, resulting in a mass migration into Europe that meets increasing resistance. Reading this reminded me a bit of reading t…

>we’ve never moved permanently backwards before,

If we did, how would we know?

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#46

Post by emteycz »

serjester wrote: post #43

While I don't necessarily disagree with his thesis, I think the author cherry picks points and creates a narrative where there isn't one. He mentions the last "shared cultural moment" was Buzz Aldrin landing on the moon. Personally after watching it live, I'd argue Space X launching humans into space is one of those "moments". This all comes down to your own interpretation of the events and there's so many other exam…

The Space roadster, followed by three rocket landings, is also one of these moments. My mother still talks about it.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#47

Post by keiferski »

"A state that cannot attain its ultimate goal usually swells to an unnaturally large size. The world-wide empire of the Romans is nothing sublime compared to Athens. The strength that really should go into the flower here remains in the leaves and stem, which flourish."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

The root issue here seems to be the focus on material prosperity as indicative of success. That strikes me as a very 20th century idea, one from before the "Information Overload" age. The cultural-philosophical problem of the future is figuring out how to prioritize in a land of abundance.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#48

Post by nottorp »

waynenilsen wrote: post #39

Unfortunately this site has received the hug of death however anyone that finds such a headline interesting may also find this interesting: "Industrial Society and Its Future" https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/unab... An excerpt from the introduction: > The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. They have greatly increased the life-expectancy of those…

Do you think the starving medieval peasant had time to worry about "psychological suffering"?

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#49

Post by Bukhmanizer »

serjester wrote: post #43

While I don't necessarily disagree with his thesis, I think the author cherry picks points and creates a narrative where there isn't one. He mentions the last "shared cultural moment" was Buzz Aldrin landing on the moon. Personally after watching it live, I'd argue Space X launching humans into space is one of those "moments". This all comes down to your own interpretation of the events and there's so many other exam…

I don’t disagree with: >world progress can’t be binned into a coherent storyline

But if you think SpaceX has anywhere close to the cultural impact of the moon landing, you really need to get out of your bubble.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#50

Post by waynenilsen »

nottorp wrote: post #48
waynenilsen wrote: post #39

Unfortunately this site has received the hug of death however anyone that finds such a headline interesting may also find this interesting: "Industrial Society and Its Future" https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/unab... An excerpt from the introduction: > The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. They have greatly increased the life-expectancy of those…

Do you think the starving medieval peasant had time to worry about "psychological suffering"?

I think you would be very interested in the rest of the document. That is very similar to the point that the author makes throughout. He suggests that spending more time on fulfilling our primitive needs of food water and shelter would result in a much more satisfying lifestyle and much higher quality of life.
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