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The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

claremontreviewofbooks.com

31–40 of 209 posts

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#31

This is a fascinating discussion because it hits directly at a topic that civilization-after-civilization has faced throughout history: are we able to reasonably assess whether we are continuing towards growth and progress or stagnation and extinction? Frankly, the historical record is not encouraging. Usually, when this topic comes up people chime in with easy takeaways like "people have always complained about this…

Few people deny the Western empire ended. The East however..

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#32

> little or no growth in working-class wages, lower social mobility Murray, and the AEI he works for, have fought against higher wages for workers and social mobility for decades. I don't take seriously him bemoaning the results of what he has helped do.

Fighting against a policy is not the same as fighting against it's intended outcome. Me fighting for 2nd amendment rights is not the same as me fighting against lowering the murder rate.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#33
post #2

Eh, I grew up with the faces on TV constantly blabbering about the "decadent West" and yet my country and most of the ex-USSR has deteriorated worse than any western one. My eyes kind of roll every time someone says decadent society as it reminds me of communist propaganda. Not seeing much of those four horsemen, either.

It's an ongoing rhetoric in Russia and much of Eastern Europe. Western issues like gay marriage, feminism, overconsumption, politically-correct language and identity politics are skillfully used by nationalistically-oriented populists to paint a decadent image of the West.

It’s also used daily here (in the US), just perhaps not quite as skillfully.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#34
To me, the decadence observed seems like the result of a decline in regard for and contributions to the welfare of others. Conservative activists have successfully enshrined shareholder primacy in corporate decision making and hostility to public goods and social programs in our politics.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#35
post #3

Well, there's something you don't see very often these days: conservative intellectuals. The old stalwarts of Ross Douthat and the AEI. The problem is though, if you skip ahead to the conclusion: > [T]he only thing more frightening than the possibility of annihilation is the possibility that our society could coast on forever as it is—like a Rome without an Attila to sack its palaces, or a Nineveh without Yahweh to p…

[deleted]

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#36

This is a fascinating discussion because it hits directly at a topic that civilization-after-civilization has faced throughout history: are we able to reasonably assess whether we are continuing towards growth and progress or stagnation and extinction? Frankly, the historical record is not encouraging. Usually, when this topic comes up people chime in with easy takeaways like "people have always complained about this…

I for one look forward to our new techno-barbarian conquerers pouring out from Steppe.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#37
I disagree with criticisms of current art or “pop” art like pop music, popular fiction books, etc. To become broadly popular you must appeal to as many people as possible. This is a balancing act between mediocrity and edginess that pushes just the right amount of boundaries to feel “new” and “fresh” without turning off a lot of people. So by definition the most popular song in the world is going to usually be fairly non-offensive.

If you get very into a genre of art, like for me is horror movies and metal music, you quickly realize there is a super deep well of amazingly high quality content that pushes the boundaries of the art form. There are passionate community members and creators that are using all the latest and greatest technology to produce ever higher quality art at less cost, expanding the amount of art and the number of people with the funds to create it.

If you look at the top-40 music charts and cringe just find music you actually like because there is tons of it being made and a community behind it. All the criticism about “modern art sucks” is such snobbish and flippant bullshit.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#38

There's a lot of talk about how civilisation lifecycles lately, and articles, books coming out, and yet one of the best works in this space goes completely unnoticed and unread, it seems, at least in anglosphere: Lev Gumilyov's Ethnogenesis. May be it's because he worked in Soviet Union, where there were not much interaction between historians on different sides of the Iron Curtain, or may be there's still no good tr…

Could you please summarise "passionarnost, ethnos, and phases of ethnogenesis" for those of us who might be willing to read more if we were convinced there was a there, there?

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#39
Unfortunately this site has received the hug of death however anyone that finds such a headline interesting may also find this interesting:

"Industrial Society and Its Future"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/unab...

An excerpt from the introduction:

> The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. They have greatly increased the life-expectancy of those of us who live in “advanced” countries, but they have destabilized society, have made life unfulfilling, have subjected human beings to indignities, have led to widespread psychological suffering (in the Third World to physical suffering as well) and have inflicted severe damage on the natural world. The continued development of technology will worsen the situation. It will certainly subject human beings to greater indignities and inflict greater damage on the natural world, it will probably lead to greater social disruption and psychological suffering, and it may lead to increased physical suffering even in “advanced” countries.

Re: The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

#40
post #7

> But there is also the possibility of a worst case that he describes in a chapter titled “Catastrophe.” Suppose that climate change has created an uninhabitable equator. The aging advanced nations cannot sustain their deficit-financed prosperity. The population of Africa continues its rapid growth, resulting in a mass migration into Europe that meets increasing resistance. Reading this reminded me a bit of reading t…

> The population of Africa continues its rapid growth, resulting in a mass migration into Europe...

For the previous century's version of this trope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rising_Tide_of_Color_Again...

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