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China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

sciencemag.org

101–110 of 113 posts

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#101
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give an example of a significant power, any time in history, that did have a lot of qualms with using repression for political ends? Even the Athenians had slaves.

Whataboutism.

"What about Iraq" would have been whataboutism.

"What about literally everyone else, in all of time" is what I said.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of that IP was stolen from US and EU companies. Cost isn't the only reason that manufacturing is moving out of China; companies are finally realizing that using Chinese factories is tantamount to giving the PRC access to all of your technical IP.

That's an incredibly short-sighted way of looking at what's happening. If you want to become a Chef, you don't start by inventing new Michelin star dishes de novo. You copy your betters. Over and over and over. Then, once you learn how they do what they do, you innovate. Japan did this. Do not underestimate China.

It's one thing to copy. It's another to send your own sous-chefs to work in another chef's kitchen, steal their yet to be released receipes, their research, their actual ingredients even!

Another thing is that Japan is friendly towards us and our values. China seeks to bully and topple every nation that does not bow to it. Not to mention the ongoing genocide and the rise of the superior Han mentality.

There are plenty of countries like India that could do it, but China tops the list not only for stealing from US, but also from every other western country including my own: Canada. See Nortel and how Huawei was created off of stolen tech and research from Nortel and thereby bankrupting Nortel. For the latest trickery, see CanSino covid vaccine.

China and collaboration with China or chinese scientists at this point cannot be trusted at all.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#103
post #60
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely curious: to what extent is that because the numerator didn't grow enough, and to what extent is it because the denominator grew too quickly?

If you read the article, it says the numerator grew faster than the denominator, and analysts think progress is good and not meeting the target this year is not a problem.

I didn't get a chance (almost always read HN comments first). Thanks for the summary!

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. (a) that changes nothing about what I said, and... (b) do you really, truly, honestly, believe that if America were behind in tech the first thing they'd do wouldn't be to send in the spies? Of course they would. I know because that's what I would do. As a leader my obligation is to my people at the end of the day -- and this is true -- who's going to stop me? In what world would you sit back and say, well, I th…

No. The U.S. intell community does not do that, empirically. There isn’t even the apparatus for doing that. The US IC’s ties to industry, apart from defense contractors and communications, are very tenuous, hamstrung by clearance and classification problem and a very insular culture. So, in addition to being factually incorrect, is very damaging to the national discourse to normalize CPC’s strategy of wholesale IP th…

The US intel community engaged in industrial espionage against Brazil's Petrobras. A third world country.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-bra...

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This rhetoric is becoming more and more false with time... https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/16/china-intellectual-prop...

Your source seems to support the gp's argument. It was written just under a year ago and is talking about a deal not struck. > According to some reports, Chinese IP theft has cost the United States $225 billion to $600 billion a year. No wonder, then, that getting China to better protect IP is a point of rare consensus among both the White House and the Democratic leadership. This isn't a small chunk of change. In fa…

The subtitle literally writes:

The country is making the transition from net importer of ideas to net innovator, and as it does, it is finding that good patent laws matter.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#106

In principal this is good for humanity so long as the research isn’t directed towards tools to improve efficiency of repression.

One thing I’ve noticed is that although eg; investing in R&D and STEM education in China has skyrocketed in the last 5-ish years in practice tech there still doesn’t seem extremely polished and talent coming to the US has been iffy on average (with the exception of the very top talent which is still excellent). A good proportion of Chinese research is still rampantly fraudulent and of the legitimate research only a s…

> My guess is you won’t see ethnic Uyghurs living in mainland China 15 years from now.

Considering the Uyghur population doubled in the last 50 years, they're not doing a very good job at it.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#107
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US? They do it, but they have a lot of qualms about it.

Nah, the US only has qualms at all at repressing their domestic citizens. No issues repressing foreigners and some minorities since ever.

> Nah, the US only has qualms at all at repressing their domestic citizens. No issues repressing foreigners and some minorities since ever.

No, that's false. An easy example is waterboarding. One administration used it (on foreigners), but it was enormously controversial domestically.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#108
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think I could trust the EU more than he rest. No more. Wirecard story shows how much this trust is misplaced.

Well this is a ridiculous statement. That's like saying you don't trust the US anymore because ENRON messed up. Nonsense. The Germans are investigating it, and as always they will make changes to prevent the nonsense again. Ironically enough, it stemmed from the US model of too many lobbyists. :D

How is it going to help those people who lost their income in the middle of the COVID outbrake? Should I just trust the German authorities with the same trust as 1 year ago? Sorry but no.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also on a per output basis spies are cheaper than scientists.

Yes. (a) that changes nothing about what I said, and... (b) do you really, truly, honestly, believe that if America were behind in tech the first thing they'd do wouldn't be to send in the spies? Of course they would. I know because that's what I would do. As a leader my obligation is to my people at the end of the day -- and this is true -- who's going to stop me? In what world would you sit back and say, well, I th…

I never claimed anything you said in b).

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The U.S. intell community does not do that, empirically. There isn’t even the apparatus for doing that. The US IC’s ties to industry, apart from defense contractors and communications, are very tenuous, hamstrung by clearance and classification problem and a very insular culture. So, in addition to being factually incorrect, is very damaging to the national discourse to normalize CPC’s strategy of wholesale IP th…

The US intel community (a) doesn't need to do that because in general US tech is world-class and (b) wouldn't be very good at their jobs if they admitted to it publicly. I suggest you review your Cold War history for examples of when both sides were absolutely stealing each others' technology. When you're top dog, your job is largely counter-intelligence. > So, in addition to being factually incorrect, is very damagi…

You are normalizing CPC actions by stating that the US does it or would do it in the CPC’s position.
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