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China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

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Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#81
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why this is downvoted. Money goes further in China than in the US, and the Chinese GDP PPP is indeed higher than the US, although barely.

$27.8 trillion vs $20.3 trillion is not barely.

Holy shit. Not even a year ago it was 23.4 to 21.4, not only did the coronavirus do a number on the US economy, but Chinese growth has been simply explosive.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this context I wouldn't really include the social sciences, which leaves Biology and Cybernetics that were indeed suppressed for 20-30 years.

why wouldn't you include the societal sciences?

Because the comment I was replying to was referring to hard sciences and technological fields, where you can pay lip service to the ideology and go do your research.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also on a per output basis spies are cheaper than scientists.

Yes. (a) that changes nothing about what I said, and... (b) do you really, truly, honestly, believe that if America were behind in tech the first thing they'd do wouldn't be to send in the spies? Of course they would. I know because that's what I would do. As a leader my obligation is to my people at the end of the day -- and this is true -- who's going to stop me? In what world would you sit back and say, well, I th…

No. The U.S. intell community does not do that, empirically. There isn’t even the apparatus for doing that. The US IC’s ties to industry, apart from defense contractors and communications, are very tenuous, hamstrung by clearance and classification problem and a very insular culture.

So, in addition to being factually incorrect, is very damaging to the national discourse to normalize CPC’s strategy of wholesale IP theft.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#84
post #8
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In principal this is good for humanity so long as the research isn’t directed towards tools to improve efficiency of repression. I wouldn't say it's that clear cut. Even if the R&D is not directly for technology for repression, it increases that power and prestige of a state that has few qualms with using repression for political ends. Those increases could mean that other states will come under its influence or em…

Can you give an example of a significant power, any time in history, that did have a lot of qualms with using repression for political ends? Even the Athenians had slaves.

Whataboutism.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if anyone has tried to measure repression's "drag coefficient" effect on creativity.

This is a very interesting question and one would hope that non repressive societies are more creative and have a higher scientific output. Im not 100 % sure thats the case, however.

> This is a very interesting question and one would hope that non repressive societies are more creative and have a higher scientific output. Im not 100 % sure thats the case, however.

Even if the repressive societies have lower overall research effectiveness, it may be higher in some areas that really matter geopolitically (e.g. military R&D). IIRC, many talented Western scientists boycott military projects for moral reasons, because they live in societies that celebrate taking personal moral stands like that. The talented scientists in a repressive society have different social influences, any may be far less likely to have a problem with military research.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. (a) that changes nothing about what I said, and... (b) do you really, truly, honestly, believe that if America were behind in tech the first thing they'd do wouldn't be to send in the spies? Of course they would. I know because that's what I would do. As a leader my obligation is to my people at the end of the day -- and this is true -- who's going to stop me? In what world would you sit back and say, well, I th…

No. The U.S. intell community does not do that, empirically. There isn’t even the apparatus for doing that. The US IC’s ties to industry, apart from defense contractors and communications, are very tenuous, hamstrung by clearance and classification problem and a very insular culture. So, in addition to being factually incorrect, is very damaging to the national discourse to normalize CPC’s strategy of wholesale IP th…

The US intel community (a) doesn't need to do that because in general US tech is world-class and (b) wouldn't be very good at their jobs if they admitted to it publicly. I suggest you review your Cold War history for examples of when both sides were absolutely stealing each others' technology.

When you're top dog, your job is largely counter-intelligence.

> So, in addition to being factually incorrect, is very damaging to the national discourse to normalize CPC’s strategy of wholesale IP theft.

Hold on, at what point did I suggest it shouldn't be combatted - or that it was okay? I'm saying we should expect them to try and do so. I absolutely think the US should fight back. That's the game.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#87
What if - we hypothetical assume that china one day would become a normal nation, ruled by a democratic elected government - with power divided by checks and balances, and a rule of law. Now lets further assume that any company, that lost ip to the "old regime" gained a title in a international court that upholds, no matter the current regime. These titles would have value - that even would increase (after all its parked money). Thus a company, making a loss due to ip theft, could sell of those future earnings - for example to a bank.

A bank, could hold on to the title and use it to for example collect the owned money of the title from people who are involved in the ownership of the title - as ccp members or parts of a company owned by the ccp.

That way ip-theft, would be nothing, but debt taken from the international community.. and as the title collection would make it rather bad for those taking the debt..the accumulating debt would make the regime go bankrupt.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#88
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is improvement in quality of face recognition 'good for humanity'?

This is one of those technologies that if in the hands of good faith actors could provide some positive results, like criminal tracking etc. But in the real world, its never just in the right hands.. Sigh yet it will still be perfected.. :|

That doesn't sound like the good actor value.

The most obvious value I'd see is getting rid of the scan in for the amazon stores, so it's a real walk, in walk out experience

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#89

In principal this is good for humanity so long as the research isn’t directed towards tools to improve efficiency of repression.

One thing I’ve noticed is that although eg; investing in R&D and STEM education in China has skyrocketed in the last 5-ish years in practice tech there still doesn’t seem extremely polished and talent coming to the US has been iffy on average (with the exception of the very top talent which is still excellent). A good proportion of Chinese research is still rampantly fraudulent and of the legitimate research only a s…

The ethnic Uyghurs bit is the same though?

The US has a lot of places with names like Sioux Falls, but where there's no Sioux living there anymore

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#90
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you pay lip service to the right politics you can innovate as much as you want in science and technologies. You are free to use tabs for indentation or write your webservice in brainfuck if you want. What can be a drag on innovation is if there is nepotism. If the leader appoints his good-for-nothing nephew to science minister. Or if there is corruption, and well connected incumbents throw up endless barri…

> As long as you pay lip service to the right politics you can innovate as much as you want in science and technologies. Unless you innovate in some field detrimental to the government, e.g. education, anonymity, freedom etc.

Cryptography is two-sided. It includes both attacking existing ciphers and inventing new ones which withstand attacks. I would think they will welcome your contributions but keep them secret.
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