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Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

bbc.com

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Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#161

Post by bubersson »

sandworm101 wrote: post #137
actionscripted wrote: post #91

If you ever wonder about the extent of Russia's online efforts consider that the comments on this HN thread might be part of things. Not saying anything in here is good/bad/other but you rarely see this level of flagged and down-voted comments in a HN thread.

Russian fanboys, sure. Actual Russian security forces, doubtful. They aren't idiots. They aren't going to pick a fight on HN were things are so easily moderated/downvoted/flagged. The real agents work deep inside their facebook/twitter/whatsapp nests. What we have here are pro-russia but nevertheless amature activists.

It just takes one nudge here and there. I think the work can be quite subtle and effective even on HN.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#162

Post by m12k »

odiroot wrote: post #149
osipov wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is remarkable that Germans for the most part are unwilling to look for signs of corruption in their government. I recall the conversations that I've had with regular German working stiffs around 2012-2014, chatting about the new Berlin Airport and how that showed symptoms of government corruption. The good folks of Germany started admitting to the possibility of corruption only when the media in Germany began to i…

Brandenburg airport, Wirecard, gas deals with Russia, diesel emissions scandal and probably much more of these high-profile cases I cannot even recall now. Indeed, there have to be systemic issues.

Da, comrade - it is very important that we discuss all these German issues in a comment section about a news article about the poisoning of a critic of the Russian regime.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#163

Post by JumpCrisscross »

sandworm101 wrote: post #137
actionscripted wrote: post #91

If you ever wonder about the extent of Russia's online efforts consider that the comments on this HN thread might be part of things. Not saying anything in here is good/bad/other but you rarely see this level of flagged and down-voted comments in a HN thread.

Russian fanboys, sure. Actual Russian security forces, doubtful. They aren't idiots. They aren't going to pick a fight on HN were things are so easily moderated/downvoted/flagged. The real agents work deep inside their facebook/twitter/whatsapp nests. What we have here are pro-russia but nevertheless amature activists.

> Actual Russian security forces, doubtful. They aren't idiots

They're not the most competent, either [1]. It's been two decades since Putin first came to power. That sort of cronyism corrodes any bureaucracy.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Lugovoy

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#164

Post by 52-6F-62 »

krick wrote: post #39
52-6F-62 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guessing it was amateur in the derogatory sense.

If you are curious: no, "новичок" is not derogatory. Much less derogatory than a "noob", anyway, and doesn't necessarily mean incompetence. Like, say there is a hiking club with pretty much the same people going on hikes for the last 5 years, and somebody joined this club last week — this person would be called "новичок" in a friendly manner. So, yeah, "newcomer" is actually a good translation.

I was referring to the context of the translation OP provided, that's all. So—I guess we're in agreement haha.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#165

Post by sschueller »

chinhodado wrote: post #17

Maybe I'm too skeptical, but this seems a bit too obvious to me. Why would you try to poison someone with no real threat to you and risk him becoming a martyr, using a method that immediately brings you to mind, with a nerve agent that is also strongly linked to you?

It seems very odd and again perfect timing for the administration to show up in Germany and complain about the planned pipeline to Russia.

And no, I am not a Russian troll nor do I have any connections to Russia. Check my comment history. I am just sceptical that one would do this and not just shot someone they wanted to get rid of them.

Is Putin really that stupid or was it someone else?

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#166

Post by nostromo »

nafizh wrote: post #155

There will never be a power vacuum in world politics. If it’s not going to be US, it’s going to be China and/or Russia. I have been thinking quite a lot how will that world look. Will it be better or worse?

Russia’s economy is smaller than Canada’s and per capita it’s citizens are poorer than Poles.

Russia is not a world power and hasn’t been for a while.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#167

Post by knolax »

actionscripted wrote: post #91

If you ever wonder about the extent of Russia's online efforts consider that the comments on this HN thread might be part of things. Not saying anything in here is good/bad/other but you rarely see this level of flagged and down-voted comments in a HN thread.

Again with the blanket accusations of astroturfing without any proof. Crying shill whenever you encounter an opposing opinion is not something a rational and free-thinking person does. What you're basically doing is refusing to engage intellectually on certain viewpoints which just so happen to go against the interests of your home country's government. From the perspective of an outsider, it looks a lot like the result of brainwashing.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#168

Post by dilyevsky »

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #152
ogogmad wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many Russian people, especially those who watch or read mainly Russian news, hold such views with complete sincerity. The internal propaganda is quite effective.

The events in Belarus recently demonstrated that you are wrong. I ran a small (1 mln pageviews/month) online Russian-speaking community since 2003 and since 2014, my main preoccupation are Kremlin bots. The population in Russia is mostly anti-Putin, they just do not speak up, because the state made sure they feel isolated.

Not a secret russian government spends considerable resources on online astroturfing but there are large constituency of closet (or not so closet) putin supporters even among tech folks of 30yo and older (basically people who were alive and old enough to remember 90s and 80s)

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#169

Post by sam_lowry_ »

SpaceRaccoon wrote: post #93
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #25

This guy has gotta be one of the bravest and most principled people out there. Almost anyone else would have determined that fighting this fight has no practical utility, since nothing short of a massive popular uprising could unseat Putin at this point, and Russians apparently have no appetite for such an uprising today. Hard enough to risk your life for something that might have a good outcome. To me, it's almost i…

Would you support Navalany if you were aware he is a nationalist?

This does not tell the full story. He participated in a couple of "nationalist" marches, and he was long-time a proponent of abolishing visa-free regime with Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, but he gave pretty logical explanations for his views.

You do not have to endorse his views, but they are at least clear and well-reasoned.

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