Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok • Hacker News Board

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#21

Post by gonzo41 » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 4:13 PM UTC

m3kw9 wrote: post #4

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent “ These agents were designed to achieve four objectives:[21][22] to be undetectable using standard 1970s and 1980s NATO chemical detection equipment; to defeat NATO chemical protective gear; to be safer to handle; and to circumvent the Chemical Weapons Convention list of controlled precursors, classes of chemical and physical form.[23]”

This is bad. But it was targeted. I worry about how easy it would be for terrorists to do something very bad with a large quantity of this stuff seeing it's so easy to move about.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#22

Post by ardy42 » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 4:14 PM UTC

arodyginc wrote: post #9

The article mentions Novichok being produced in Soviet Union in the 80-s, whats more interesting, it's still manufactured in Czech Republic, at least until recently: https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/03/novichok-type-nerve-agen...

The wiki article seems to give more context about that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent:

> Novichok has, however, been known to most western secret services since the 1990s,[16] and in 2016 Iranian chemists synthesised five Novichok agents for analysis and produced detailed mass spectral data which was added to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons Central Analytical Database.[17][18] Previously, there had been no detailed descriptions of their spectral properties in open scientific literature.[17][19] A small amount of agent A-230 was also claimed to have been synthesised in the Czech Republic in 2017 for the purpose of obtaining analytical data to help defend against these novel toxic compounds.[20]

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#23

Post by mc32 » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 4:14 PM UTC

chinhodado wrote: post #17

Maybe I'm too skeptical, but this seems a bit too obvious to me. Why would you try to poison someone with no real threat to you and risk him becoming a martyr, using a method that immediately brings you to mind, with a nerve agent that is also strongly linked to you?

Russia knows no one is going to do anything about it.

This method lets people know what tools they are willing to use on an adversary. And it’s also a signature “we did it” so you don’t have to guess who’s after you. It serves as a warning to any upstarts as well.

It’s not all that different from the Ndraghetta bombings up and down Italy in the late XX cent.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#24

Post by occamrazor » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 4:16 PM UTC

chinhodado wrote: post #17

Maybe I'm too skeptical, but this seems a bit too obvious to me. Why would you try to poison someone with no real threat to you and risk him becoming a martyr, using a method that immediately brings you to mind, with a nerve agent that is also strongly linked to you?

Probably the same reason for poisoning someone with Polinium: leaving a clear signature, but being still able to deny any involvement.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#25

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 4:16 PM UTC

This guy has gotta be one of the bravest and most principled people out there. Almost anyone else would have determined that fighting this fight has no practical utility, since nothing short of a massive popular uprising could unseat Putin at this point, and Russians apparently have no appetite for such an uprising today. Hard enough to risk your life for something that might have a good outcome. To me, it's almost impossible to imagine risking my life for an effort I knew was doomed to failure.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#26

Post by autisticcurio » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 4:16 PM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #5

dvionoth wrote: post #2

cant say im surprised honestly. as sad as it is, Messing with Putin himself rarely leads to a positive outcome.

The man is ex-KGB, installed himself in power for life and somehow his critics have a way of getting killed or tripping on some soviet nerve agents.

And Russia doesnt make the technology to keep everyone under surveillance 24/7, its a big country, its easier to get in and out of Russia than say the UK, and not all perceptions of freedom & privacy are accurate.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#27

Post by austinjp » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 4:17 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #20

chinhodado wrote: post #17

Maybe I'm too skeptical, but this seems a bit too obvious to me. Why would you try to poison someone with no real threat to you and risk him becoming a martyr, using a method that immediately brings you to mind, with a nerve agent that is also strongly linked to you?

Didn't they poison some guy with radioactive isotopes a few years back? I don't think they care about it being attributed to them, or think that being attributed to them has positive value .

That was Alexander Litvinenko.

https://www.google.com/search?q=alexander+litvinenko

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#28

Post by geogra4 » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 4:18 PM UTC

Is he really the opposition leader? Who gave him that name? What party or elected position is he part of in the Duma?

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#29

Post by trhway » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 4:19 PM UTC

Putin regime wants to make sure that Belarus fire wouldn't spread to Russia, and thus the timing of the message that they sent to whatever little opposition still exists in Russia.

I mean the chances of actual popular uprising in Russia in near future is nil, yet Belarus can definitely embolden and make the opposition bigger, thus basically reverting the effects of all the opposition squashing Putin's efforts probably back to the 2012 state and making it a serious PITA for Putin.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#30

Post by FabHK » Wed, Sep 02, 2020, 4:19 PM UTC

capableweb wrote: post #7

mv4 wrote: post #3

FTA: 'The name Novichok means "newcomer" in Russian' No it doesn't. Novichok means "amateur, noob". Sigh.

Well, those are mostly the same. Noob (newbie, n00b) comes from newcomer/novice. Amateur I'm not sure how it fits in there. I think BBC is just using the synonym that the most people would understand (newcomer vs noob, everyone gets the first, some will not understand the second)

Amateur is related to latin "amare" = to love, and originally refers to someone that does something for the love of it (unlike a professional, who does it for money or gain). So, an amateur need not be new to a pursuit (or bad at it).

So, it seems to me (as an amateur...) that noob, novice, newcomer are better renderings of "novichok" than amateur.